cistern overflow

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Am fitting a closed coupled toilet to a newly added 4" soil pipe. There has not been any consideration for the cistern overflow. There is only short 4" waste pipe coming out from the floor. Are there any waste pipe connectors which have the facility to fit the over flow to.
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Normally a cistern overflow pipe would pass through an outside wall so that one would notice when the cistern needed attention. If you coupled it directly to the soil pipe you would not know if you were wasting water or not. Richard.
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External overflows are now unnecessary. The Water Regulations now allow overflows to discharge into the WC pan via the flush pipe. This can be done in two ways: either with a 22mm PVC pipe connected from the normal overflow outlet to a tee on the flush pipe, or by installing a siphon in the cistern which incorporates an internal overflow. For a close coupled suite without a flush pipe, the internal overflow is the only option.
http://www.thomasdudley.co.uk/downloads/Internal_Overflow.pdf
It is permitted to plumb the overflow directly into the drain pipe but you need to use a tundish to be able to see the water escaping and a trap to stop bad smells escaping.
Peter
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On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 11:37:59 +0000 (UTC), "Richard"

I may be wrong about the following, but here's why I think that it wouldn't be appropriate to connect the overflow to the waste.
The cistern fills up with clean water from the supply, more often than not via a header tank which is shared by taps and other outlets.
I would have thought that a possible issue with connecting a cistern overflow to a foul waste pipe could be that over a period of time airborne germs could find their way between the waste and main water tank used to supply drinking water. There is no trap between the overflow and its outfall, so foul air can pass back to the cistern no problem.
Venting to outside wall is a good idea though.
PoP
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PoP wrote: <snip>

I have always been told NOT to drink from any tap except the kitchen cold as this is direct from the mains (wouldn't fancy drinking water from any tank all those rats/pigeons/mice/bats )

If the overflow situation is dealt with right away the water can stain the walls, ruin harling (pebble dash) and if it doesn't drain away can cause puddles. <snip>
--
Yours S.
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Soup wrote:

--
Yours S.
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That depends on your system. All the taps in my house are direct from the mains, including the hot taps. Most houses I've lived in have had direct mains to the cold taps and stored water hot taps, although my parents did have drinking water in the kitchen only when I was growing up. They've since upgraded.
Christian.
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Christian McArdle wrote:

House was like that when I was growing up too (only mains fed tap is the kitchen cold), house we are in now (council house Scotland)has only the cold tap in the kitchen fed directly from the mains everything else is fed from the tank in the loft either direct (cold taps) or via the hot water storage tank (hot taps).Thought all houses were the same, all the water (apart from the kitchen cold) can be switched off with the outlet valve from the tank in the loft (in case of a leak).Or any item can be switched off with the isolating valves (to change washers/ball valves e.t.c.).
--
Yours S.
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On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 17:33:28 -0000, "Christian McArdle"

I'm not sure that I'd use the word "upgrade". Have you tasted the Reading public water supply. let alone looked at the Thames Water analysis for it?

.andy
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It's not so bad when it is really cold. I actually quite like it. The main problem is that it's a bit high in chlorine. When I was in Birmingham, I could hardly touch the mains water, even though it was supposed to be really good stuff from the Welsh mountains.
Christian.
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Christian McArdle wrote:

Water here (Balerno Edinburgh Scotland) is very clear (straight from the hills at the back of us) I can't test the water but it seems "pure" with no chlorinary(?) taste. When I stayed at RAF Shawbury near Shrewsbury Shropshire the water was MINGING (not only the camp water but water in nearby houses, cafes e.t.c.)all red and full of bits despite being so near the Welsh border.
--
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On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 17:33:28 -0000, Christian McArdle wrote:

Quite. He'd go thirsty here, no taps are off the mains. All water goes through at least the 150 gallon storage tanks. These are now properly covered and insulated when we moved in there was quite a collection of dead things (one mouse) and general muck building rubble etc in them.
Mains water is a recent inovation for this house, it arrived <20 years ago. Previously it was pumped (unreliably, hence the 150 gallons of storage) from the farm 1/2 mile down the road and approx 50m vertically below us.
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Cheers snipped-for-privacy@howhill.com
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Some time ago these were (more correctly) called "Warning Pipes".
A cistern should never overflow if the house is maintained by a competent D I Y person. The pipe is to warn of a problem - such as a washer in the ball valve being pitted.
Some houses have running overflows and a poorly positioned outlet pipe - it can lead to the brickwork getting ruined if there is a hard frost. The pipe should (I believe) have a tee on the end to stop the water trickling back to the wall if the pipe is horizontal. It also helps to keep bugs out.
( A house near to me had a hose attached to the warning pipe - and led to the drain hopper) Eventually the Water Board issued him with a notice to fix it.
--


Regards

John



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Incidentally, I believe that the new push button toilet cisterns "overflow" into the basin and do not need a separate pipe.
I am sure some expert will clarify. However, it should never be acceptable to put up with an overflow - it is always easy to fix. At the worst - a new ball valve can be obtained for less than a fiver. A repair kit for around 90pence.
--


Regards

John


"> >Normally a cistern overflow pipe would pass through an outside wall so
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On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 17:15:07 -0000, "John"

Funny you should mention this - I've just fixed our cistern overflow ballvalve in the last half hour by physically replacing it.
Fortunately my spares cupboard is starting to find the necessary bits and pieces at last! I could open a B&Q plumbing counter with all the odds and sods I've collected over the last six months!
PoP
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dave wrote:

We used to have the overflow vented outside (made a **** of a mess on the wall if it was ever "running") now the overflow is straight into the bowl (our water is unmetered so I can't see a problem, however if the water was metered ...). Have no experience of cistern overflow into the soil stack Would suggest that with a close coupled suite the actual siphon allows overfill to empty direct into the bowl
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Thanks for all the replies. Its not really suitable to escape through the wall as the bathroom is at the front of the house and the pifalls of that have been mentioned above on some of the replies. The internal overflow seems like the ideal solution. Cheers
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I asked the same question a couple of weeks ago. In the end I fitted the cistern overflow to the flush pipe with a clamp-type T adapter ( so any overflow goes into the toilet bowl ). However, I was told that it is necessary ( regs ) to fit a tundish so that the overflow drips can be easily seen. I fitted one even though it will be concealed by a tongue and groove boxed enclosure. It does to some extent decouple the waste pipe from the overflow, since a tundish is a small bowl like device, which then goes on to connect to the flush pipe; the overflow pipe descends towards the tundish, but does not physicaly connect with it. Thus drips from any cistern overflow drip into the tundish and can be seen.
Andy.
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This is really weird and frustrating. I posted the following answer yesterday lunchtime, but nobody else can see it. What's going on? Can anybody help please?
External overflows are now unnecessary. The Water Regulations now allow overflows to discharge into the WC pan via the flush pipe. This can be done in two ways: either with a 22mm PVC pipe connected from the normal overflow outlet to a tee on the flush pipe, or by installing a siphon in the cistern which incorporates an internal overflow. For a close coupled suite without a flush pipe, the internal overflow is the only option.
http://www.thomasdudley.co.uk/downloads/Internal_Overflow.pdf
It is permitted to plumb the overflow directly into the drain pipe but you need to use a tundish to be able to see the water escaping and a trap to stop bad smells escaping.
Peter
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Peter , Your original post appeared on my newsreader OK.
I am surprised that an internal overflow is permitted as it is difficult to see that it would give a warning as effective as an external pipe. The external arrangement gives both a visual and audible indication of a leakage problem. Whereas an internal overflow is probably nearly silent , very discreet and probably not ever seen by the female population :-)
Richard.
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