Am fitting a closed coupled toilet to a newly added 4" soil pipe. There has not been any consideration for the cistern overflow. There is only short 4" waste pipe coming out from the floor. Are there any waste pipe connectors which have the facility to fit the over flow to.
Normally a cistern overflow pipe would pass through an outside wall so that one would notice when the cistern needed attention. If you coupled it directly to the soil pipe you would not know if you were wasting water or not. Richard.
External overflows are now unnecessary. The Water Regulations now allow overflows to discharge into the WC pan via the flush pipe. This can be done in two ways: either with a 22mm PVC pipe connected from the normal overflow outlet to a tee on the flush pipe, or by installing a siphon in the cistern which incorporates an internal overflow. For a close coupled suite without a flush pipe, the internal overflow is the only option.
Peter
I may be wrong about the following, but here's why I think that it wouldn't be appropriate to connect the overflow to the waste.
The cistern fills up with clean water from the supply, more often than not via a header tank which is shared by taps and other outlets.
I would have thought that a possible issue with connecting a cistern overflow to a foul waste pipe could be that over a period of time airborne germs could find their way between the waste and main water tank used to supply drinking water. There is no trap between the overflow and its outfall, so foul air can pass back to the cistern no problem.
Venting to outside wall is a good idea though.
PoP
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I have always been told NOT to drink from any tap except the kitchen cold as this is direct from the mains (wouldn't fancy drinking water from any tank all those rats/pigeons/mice/bats )
If the overflow situation is dealt with right away the water can stain the walls, ruin harling (pebble dash) and if it doesn't drain away can cause puddles.
We used to have the overflow vented outside (made a **** of a mess on the wall if it was ever "running") now the overflow is straight into the bowl (our water is unmetered so I can't see a problem, however if the water was metered ...). Have no experience of cistern overflow into the soil stack Would suggest that with a close coupled suite the actual siphon allows overfill to empty direct into the bowl
Some time ago these were (more correctly) called "Warning Pipes".
A cistern should never overflow if the house is maintained by a competent D I Y person. The pipe is to warn of a problem - such as a washer in the ball valve being pitted.
Some houses have running overflows and a poorly positioned outlet pipe - it can lead to the brickwork getting ruined if there is a hard frost. The pipe should (I believe) have a tee on the end to stop the water trickling back to the wall if the pipe is horizontal. It also helps to keep bugs out.
( A house near to me had a hose attached to the warning pipe - and led to the drain hopper) Eventually the Water Board issued him with a notice to fix it.
Incidentally, I believe that the new push button toilet cisterns "overflow" into the basin and do not need a separate pipe.
I am sure some expert will clarify. However, it should never be acceptable to put up with an overflow - it is always easy to fix. At the worst - a new ball valve can be obtained for less than a fiver. A repair kit for around
90pence.
Funny you should mention this - I've just fixed our cistern overflow ballvalve in the last half hour by physically replacing it.
Fortunately my spares cupboard is starting to find the necessary bits and pieces at last! I could open a B&Q plumbing counter with all the odds and sods I've collected over the last six months!
PoP
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Thanks for all the replies. Its not really suitable to escape through the wall as the bathroom is at the front of the house and the pifalls of that have been mentioned above on some of the replies. The internal overflow seems like the ideal solution. Cheers
I asked the same question a couple of weeks ago. In the end I fitted the cistern overflow to the flush pipe with a clamp-type T adapter ( so any overflow goes into the toilet bowl ). However, I was told that it is necessary ( regs ) to fit a tundish so that the overflow drips can be easily seen. I fitted one even though it will be concealed by a tongue and groove boxed enclosure. It does to some extent decouple the waste pipe from the overflow, since a tundish is a small bowl like device, which then goes on to connect to the flush pipe; the overflow pipe descends towards the tundish, but does not physicaly connect with it. Thus drips from any cistern overflow drip into the tundish and can be seen.
Andy.
This is really weird and frustrating. I posted the following answer yesterday lunchtime, but nobody else can see it. What's going on? Can anybody help please?
External overflows are now unnecessary. The Water Regulations now allow overflows to discharge into the WC pan via the flush pipe. This can be done in two ways: either with a 22mm PVC pipe connected from the normal overflow outlet to a tee on the flush pipe, or by installing a siphon in the cistern which incorporates an internal overflow. For a close coupled suite without a flush pipe, the internal overflow is the only option.
Peter
Peter , Your original post appeared on my newsreader OK.
I am surprised that an internal overflow is permitted as it is difficult to see that it would give a warning as effective as an external pipe. The external arrangement gives both a visual and audible indication of a leakage problem. Whereas an internal overflow is probably nearly silent , very discreet and probably not ever seen by the female population :-)
Richard.
Yet again this newsgroup scores a major victory! I'm fitting a new close-coupled pan and cistern in the new year and was faced with running the overflow pipe right across the bathroom to the bath waste pipe - about a 4 ft pipe run.
Now all I need do is ensure I've got one of these internal overflow jobbies and the jobs done.
Excellent. Please pat yourself on the back for sharing a superbly useful piece of information.
PoP
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PoP wrote
Thanks. I'm glad you finally saw it! Could you kindly have a look on the Mixer Tap Help thread and see if you can see my post there? Nobody has answered that one either! :o)
All the best Peter
Richard wrote
Thanks, but obviously not everybody could see it. Not knowing anything about this I guess it's got something to do with ISP's, but is it mine or theirs? Should I contact mine? I need some help on this.
This is copied from Southern Water's web site, quoting the Regs:
"Water Supply (Water Fittings) Regulations 1999 WC Warning Pipes Except for pressure flushing cisterns, all WC flushing cisterns should be provided with a connection for a warning pipe, the outlet of which is to discharge in a prominent position, or other equally effective device. The Water Supply Industry considers modern, tested and approved ball valves are sufficiently reliable and that WCs that have an internal overflow discharging into the WC pan shall be deemed to meet the requirement of the Regulations. A warning pipe may also discharge into a flush pipe, without a tundish."
I agree it's surprising - you'd expect tons of cases of people ignoring water flowing into the WC pan (even if they do notice it). But then tons of people ignore external warning pipes anyway. It's a brave move and makes things a lot easier for all of us. Maybe they'll review it later and change the Regs again if necessary.
You might think so - I could'nt possibly comment! ;o)
Peter
Hmm, I have hundreds of messages in my newsreader window so picking this one out isn't going to be easy. However I'll keep my eyes peeled..... :)
PoP
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I would be surprised if there wasn't already an overflow fitted inside the cistern. I've just been looking for a new toilet myself and all the close coupled cisterns had a little pipe fitted inside which was preset to the maximum water level and drained into the water catchment area where the cistern mounts the pan.
The Q
I don't really agree with these internal overflows. I suppose people will soon be asking how to fix limescale stains from a constantly running overflow into the toilet bowl.
Overflows should be treated as indications that a minor D-I-Y job is needed.
Replacing a ball valve washer is a 10 minute job - better still replace the ball valve for something more sophisticated. I suppose that once a washer starts to allow a leak it becomes quickly eroded and rapidly deteriorates.
A running overflow is an indication that something needs a bit of attention.
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