Chrome towel warmer - uniform heating?

[Steve]

Hi

I recently purchased a chrome towel warmer for the bathroom. Plumber fitted it and switched CH system on. Four of the fourteen bars appear not to be heating, certainly not nearly as much as the other bars. The plumber said it wasn't normal and that it was probably faulty. I sent it back to the sales co, who sent it to the manufacturer for testing.

The manufacturer has said that it is heating fine (albeit with an electric element rather than a pumped system.) The sales co now want to charge me for two wasted courier journeys to return it to me.

First, is it normal for these rads to have some bars that don't heat up very much? Second, can / should they charge me for this? As far as I am concerned the rad doesn't work as I expected it to. If I reject the goods, are they likely to take the delivery charge out of my refund?

Thanks for any advice you can offer - I am aware some of my questions should perhaps be in the legal / finance groups and I will post there if more appropriate.

S

[Jim K]

I expect they will try and let you piss around trying to get it back until you give up...

Can you reveal who we talking about?

Did you pay by credit card? if so maybe worth calling them and explaining that you've rejected some goods which your plumber advised you were faulty etc and you are having issues with the sales co regarding a full refund and want the CC co to assist and refund you i.e. do a "chargeback" in your favour for full amount. If they agree you can let the rest chase you for the courier charges which they won't cos not worth it.

Cheers Jim K

[Gordon Henderson]

We have one of these:

's stainless rather than chrome.

CH water entry and exit is vertically at the bottom, one either side. There is a bleed-valve at the top at the back.

It heats up uniformly from the bottom to the top in about 1-2 minutes when the CH comes on. It's the highest point in the system so does occasionally need bleeding (not often though - really not sure if there's a leak, or whatever, but it's not enough for me to wory)

Gordon

[Jim K]

add and "aladdin auto vent" or similar?

JimK

[John Rumm]

Which four - i.e. top, bottom, or elsewhere?

Hard to see how a towel rail can be faulty as such - unless it has blocked pipes.

No, unless they have not been bleed correctly.

Quite possibly. Did you buy from the manufacturer directly, or from a shop? (technically speaking your contract is with the shop in which case)

If it is working fine, get the plumber back to re-fit it, and pass the bill for couriers on to him!

[Steve]

Sure, they go under various guises, but the one I bought through was

Did you pay by credit card? if so maybe worth calling them and

Ok, will look into this, thanks

For info, this is the engineer's test report:

Regards, S

------------------------

I have had this towel rail on test for 12 hrs + with a heating element inside to see how evenly it heats up (bear in mind this will be more affected by any obstructions that can cause sections of the radiator not to heat up due to the lack of forced flow). The findings are that a few bars heat up somewhat less than the others but not to a degree that I think this constitutes a returnable fault. I take into account that it should work better in this respect when working on a pumped flow hot water system.

The unit will be returned to you (it is okay in every other respect) and I will force-flush it just to make sure.

Regards,

Technical and Quality Control"

----------------------------

In more detail, the following bars show reduced heating up:

1:) Is luke-warm but bear in mind I filled it quickly for the heating test, so there is a large air lock at the top.

2 and 3): Noticeably cooler than the hottest bars but not out-of-limits (and bear in mind this is just an element, no forced flow).

6): As per 2 and 3.

Last few bars from bottom: Approaching luke-warm but bear in mind this is normal performance for a heating element due to thermal stratification.

I have obtained a second opinion on the acceptability of this unit from its designer and our director,

These are my opinions, this unit would be cleaned up and restocked if subject to all these tests, without knowledge of why it was returned.

I believe the problem may have been ameliorated by our testing procedure: We use compressed air to rapidly expel water from the unit to empty it. I think this has dislodged any blockages.

Procedure will be completed prior to dispatch.

[Steve]

random - 2,3,5,10 although the manufacturer's report shows slight differences (see post above)

This was my assumption - but manufacturer says no.

Website - sales co that passes orders to manufacturer.

Well the "working fine" part is debatable as far as I am concerned - I expected all bars to heat evenly. If they return it and all is fine, then your suggestion comes in to play. However, at this point I feel reluctant to just fork out an extra 35 quid in courier fees - so much for Internet savings!

Regards, S

[John Rumm]

It sounds like you may have a case of a poorly balanced heating system, so that the flow rate through the rad is too low. This could manifest in slow and uneven heating, but since the actual output of these rads is actually quite low, would not stop at least some of it getting hot to the touch.

Well, your call ;-)

It might be a case of having to take the hit and attempt to extract satisfaction from the plumber.

[Gordon Henderson]

Not worth it for the time it takes - once every couple of months or so.

And it's not compatable:

Do not use on radiators with vertical tapping - e.g. towel radiators.

The bleed-valve is a tiny screw in thing at the top of one of the verticals. Nothing more clever than a small bolt and fibre washer!

Cheers,

Gordon

[Steve]

Thanks for the reply John. For info, I did close all other rads off to direct flow only through this one and it was the same. Presumably this eliminates the unbalance theory?

Sounds like you might be right. Thanks again for your input.

S

[Jim K]

if it makes you feel useful ;>)

ahem...for e.g.

The bleed-valve is a tiny screw in thing at the top of one of the

yes that's what the auto vent replaces....

Jim K

[John Rumm]

Indeed it would. In which case I am at a loss to explain it!

[Jim K]

was

> > Did you pay by credit card? if so maybe worth calling them and

mmmm so the in-house test engineer reckons it's OK even after his own admission of a rushed bodge test and hey the boss has signed it too - no surprises there then!!

It would go back on the shelf as "perfect" - with the rest of the cheaply made tat!

If he's so geared up to use compressed air to empty it why could he not take trouble to make sure it was without airlocks before he finished testing it and declared it 100%?

It's your call - sounds crap to me - even after 12hours of constant heat on test the thing was still obviously unevenly heated ?? Consider telling the supplier you're rejecting it (ideally in writing) as "not fit for purpose" and demand a full refund (or a replacement?...tho expect them all to be as dodgy somehow).

could mention Trading Standards a few times first and see how they respond?

Cheers Jim K

[Gordon Henderson]

I'm Scottish.

> The bleed-valve is a tiny screw in thing at the top of one of the

Maybe I ought to have said: Small bolt and fibre washer perpindicular to the pipe, the top of which is welded over...

Gordon

[Bruce]

It is quite possible that the manufacturer tested it at a much higher flow rate than the average central heating system.

I would be inclined to write to the seller and reject the item as not being of merchantable quality, requesting a full refund.

[Jim K]

oh now you tell us ;>)

so just the :-

that you got wrong then ;>)

still easily corrected.

Cheers Jim K