chocky blocks pushed into the ceicling spave

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I have just got back from my son's new flat in Thurso (Scotland. Loved the native Scots, they were great. ) and he wanted me to fit some light fittings that would replace the ones the builders installed. The flat is brand new and has the highest spec of insulation, but is of a wood construction. I'm sure the experts know what I mean.
The original light fittings look like they have been selected by the construction company. However, I was reluctant to do the following, until I contacted the group.
Can I terminate the wires from a light fitting; 3 red, 3 black, 1 switch return, any earth, fan neutral, fan feed, (bathroom only for the fan) into connecting blocks and then connect a length of 1mm twin and earth into the connecting blocks, tuck all the connecting blocks into the ceiling cavity and fit a light fitting to the other end of this cable? The flat has an owner above this ceiling. Hence my question.
Thanks
Dave
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Dave wrote:

snip
I lived in Wick for a while, it's a great part of the country.
Lee
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fittings
I
This is normally called a pudding joint and it is normally done by pudding electrician. It is not safe practice at all Dave. I take it you don't have the space or the right sized hole to push a proper junction box through the ceiling. (?)
If not, then you can buy a ceiling rose that will give you enough connection inside it, to do the job you want. Ask at your local DIY store or electrical wholesalers, for a loop through ceiling rose, most are of this pattern now, or an empty one which you can put all the cables in with terminal connectors (choc block) and do the job correctly.
Like these: (watch out for the link wrapping back)
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Conduit_Pvc_Index/Accessories_and_Box_Lids /
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/BG561.html
If you click on the picture of the second link, you'll see that it has many connection terminals that you can use to loop circuits together.
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I recently bought a bathroom light from B&Q which was supplied with a chock block. The instructions told me to wire it with the chock block used for the loop-in wiring of the lighting circuit, and to push the block into the ceiling void! Is this unsafe? Isn't that what diagram 2B on the website above is suggesting?
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There's nothing intrinsically unsafe with properly installed "chocolate block" connectors. For added safety, they should be surrounded with insulating tape once the connection has been made.
Roger
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On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:49:45 +0100, "Roger Mills"

Beg to disagree, albeit in a slightly limited way.
A choc block doesn't have any strain relief capability built in. It might be okay for fixed wiring behind a panel where the wiring is held firmly, but is definitely not good karma for wiring which might be subject to being moved occasionally.
PoP
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wrote:

I agree that it shouldn't be used where strain relief is required. But the original question related to use above the ceiling over a light fitting - where it is ok, and comes within my description of "properly installed". In essence, it's not a lot different from a round junction box - which also doesn't have strain relief - although it does provide better insulation.
Roger
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wrote:

And how often is the cable going to be moved in a ceiling void? it will be perfectly ok providing the connections are tight.
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On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:40:53 +0100, "Richard"

"Ceiling void" was not part of the specification of the message to which I replied - it was a reference in an earlier part of the thread.
This is a d.i.y group where it is extremely likely that many people reading the content are not qualified tradespeople. They could read the reply in isolation (without reading the rest of the thread) and then think "so it's okay to use a chocolate block anywhere then".
I sought to add clarification. People are generally more likely to read messages and replies than they are to read messages and previous messages (IMHO) ;)
PoP
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Choccie blockie in the void is *not* consistent with the 16th Edn regs. Joints in circuits are s'posed to be made within enclosures made of non-flammable material; it's hard to argue that wrapping a couple of turns of insulting tape (the official name for the stuff in this group ;-) around yer blockie-of-choccie constitues a non-flammable enclosure, or that the resulting blob of gooey mess anyone working on it after a year or three will have to unravel - or which Sod and Murphy will themselves unravel - makes for "good workmanship".
If the fitting in question will be replaced with another in the same position, it might provide a suitable enclosure for the mess of cables the OP describes. If not, given there's no access from the floor above (that's a different flat), with a modern plasterboard ceiling you can readily fit a dry-lining box (square or round to taste, though the latter are hard to find covers for) into which you can put the choccie-blockie without needing to swathe it in goo-exuding insulting tape. The other Regs requirement is that the join (unless it's "permanent", i.e. crimped or insulated) should remain accessible for maintenance and fault-finding - so no hiding this junction box/chocblock in the void and then flawlessly plastering over the 'ole!
Hope that doesn't result in an outbreak of gloom... Stefek
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On 20 Oct 2003 18:43:51 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@hp.com wrote:

Agreed.
PoP
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"permanent",
Not to me it doesn't :-)
All I want to do is make a safe connection that will stand the scrutiny of an insurance assessor :-( If it comes to that.
On the other hand, you have come up with what I wanted to know. Many thanks for that, now I know how to solve the problem.
Dave
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at
No it's not, it is suggesting that the terminal blocks be covered by the cup shaped base of a light fitting.
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the
new
I'm
until
switch
into
the
cavity
have
the
The light fitting is about 300mm in diam. so yes I could do that. It is designed to fit flush with the ceiling, with a seal between.

connection
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Conduit_Pvc_Index/Accessories_and_Box _Lids/
many
Yes, but the light fittings all have to sit flush with the ceiling, as they are a complete unit that replaces all of the original light fitting.
The next problem is the kitchen light. It is one of those down lighters with four lamps on a curved bar. The ceiling rose part is about 4 or 5 inches in diam. with all the cables connecting in it's ceiling rose (it has all the required terminations inside it). He wants me to change that for another version, but different colour that has a smaller rose fitting, with no terminations inside it. This means I have to condense the wires some how and make another connector block joint.
TIA
Dave
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<snipped>
they
with
in
and
If you can fit a round or square dry lining box in the ceiling, the type that grip inside plasterboard, you can make all you connections inside it and drop cables to your new fittings.
Like these: (watch out for line wrap on the link)
<http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Boxes_and_Enclosures_Index/Boxes_Dry _Lining/>
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fittings
I
These pages might also be of interest to you: (click the "Next" button at the bottom of the pages to navigate further)
http://www.easydiybathrooms.com/loop2.html
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So i the original position of a light fitting you want to join out the feeds and run a new cable to a fitting elesewhere. I would advise against just using chocblok connectors as its not really safe and a bit rough. Can you get a button joint box inside the celing void as this would be best.
Jon.
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the
fittings
new
I'm
until I

switch
into
the
cavity
I am going to look at all the ways that are 'legal' now.
Many thanks to all contributors, it has been well received and accurate info.
Dave
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That should have read 'and concise'. Well, I was tired at the time I wrote it :-(
Dave
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Just read all this and thought I would mention that some Scottish building regs concern electrical issues because they are much tighter on fire safety than in England. It's probably worth checking this as the insurance assessor would take a very dim view if the work on the lights hadn't been to regs.
Al
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