chimney breast removed, need to assess structural integrity

Hi

If there is doubt that it is done properly, I personally would get a structural engineer.

A surveyor, IMO, isn't up to the job. An engineer is the bloke who would be able to ratify/condemn any structural part of the building, whether it was done in a standard way or not, within reason.

A surveyor may feel happy commenting if a modification was done in a standard way - but I'd go for the engineer. Try yellow pages and phone a few and see if they will quote for inspection. IFAIK, the engineer should be backed by insurance, so if he gets it wrong, you may be able to claim for remedial work - ask up front about this.

If you are selling - is it your residence? Do you know when the chimney might have been removed? Try visiting your local Building Control Office (Borough Council) and see if they have anything on file for your address.

If it was done under building control and there is a signed off certificate, that should solve your problem...

HTH

Tim

Sure someone with more experience of this will be along soon - so wait around for a bit and see if anyone else replies.

Reply to
Tim S
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hi,

i am a new member here and i have question for people who deal wit property buying and selling. i am selling a property and the homebuye survey has showen that the downstairs chimney has been removed but i is still in place on the first floor. i have been asked to get i checked to see if it is structually spported.

can someone please advice on how i go about doing this. i can eithe get a surveyor to have a look at it or a structual engineer. i don' understand what the difference is between the two and how would be mor useful for my situation.

i think i have read elseware on the forum that i can get a structura engineer in and have the chimney inspected.

thanks for your help in advance

ma

-- teracir

Reply to
teracir

That last point is a good one - let's hope you're lucky!

But if it was done in days of old, without benefit of building control, it could equally well have been bodged.

I was caught in a similar way when selling the old house last year. Downstairs and upstairs chimney breasts had both been removed about 40 years ago, leaving just the brick flue supported in the loft. But even though it had held up for 40 years, and had got through at least two house-buyer's surveys (including our own, 25 years ago) the method of support was not acceptable by modern standards. In order to be able to move, we had to pay for the structural engineer's survey and the estimated costs of the work - this time including a building warrant.

A proper job would probably require the brickwork of the chimney breast to be supported either by a lintel spanning between two load-bearing downstairs walls, or by some kind of steel-framed shelf attached to the brick wall behind.

You may be able to make some educated guesses about this chimney breast by looking for evidence of a boxed-in lintel, or by tapping down the chimney breast to see if it's hollow near the bottom (evidence that there could be a shelf inside).

But most likely it will be necessary to lift some floorboards and/or make some holes, just to see what is really there. Do remember that whatever you find may be in a delicate condition, and bricks could fall if disturbed. If you don't have the DIY skills to deal with whatever you might find, you'd best get a builder in from the very beginning.

Reply to
Ian White

Inspection will require knocking holes in ceiling.

Be aware of the difference between current BR approved practices and older but still safe methods. Professionals have a habit of complaining about anything not to current standards, despite the fact that most of Britains housing stock is NTCS. If its supported safely but NTCS you can reasonably refuse to knock anything off the sale price. Buyers are often led up the garden path by the people they hire to advise them, and can often think everything must be to CS. Of course on a non-new house it wont be, nor need it be.

NT

Reply to
meow2222

Why are you getting it done if you are the seller? Surely it is up to the buyer to get the property surveyed, and to satisfy themselves as to the condition of the property?

If the buyer had forked out for a proper survey then the chimney would have been checked. Does the buyer want you to test the drains and electrics and every other potential probelm too?

As a seller, I would say that as far as I know, the chimney is OK, and if the buyer wants to arrange a survey then that would be fine. Then I would await the report and either get the recommended work done prior to the sale, or agree a discount.

A good building surveyor should be able to comment on a chimney and its supports, and recommend remmedial action. Ask the question before you instruct him.

dg

Reply to
dg

Some weeks ago I'd have said just the same thing.

However. I am currently selling a property, and the buyer's valuer pointed out that one of the ouside walls had a bulge in it, and needed to be checked out by a structural engineer. I was asked to get this done. My first reaction was 'sod off'; but in the end I decided to go along with it. I employed an engineer of my choosing - someone who I've used before and who's judgement I trust; he's not someone who insists on covering his back at every end an turn.

I chatted to him when he arrived and explained the situation; I asked him *just* to look at the wall in question and nothing else, which he did. I also asked him that if he was able to, not to make any mention in his report of any 'nice-to-have' -type remedial work (eg demolishing and rebuilding the wall for cosmetic purposes only); what I wanted to know was whether the property was safe and in any danger of collapse etc. I knew full well that anything like that would instantly be used as a bargaining tool for reducing the asking price.

The engineer ascertained that the bulge was very old, was perfectly safe and in no need of any remedial work. Full stop. The report satisfied the buyer and the mortgage company, and no price reduction was sought. I can well imagine the different scenario had I commissioned the report as a potential buyer, rather than seller. For a start, the engineer understandably wanted the fee for a full structural survey (£200), and for that, as a buyer I would have got him to go over the whole of the house, and who knows what he might have found.

The experience taught me something, anyway!

(By the way, as I mentioned in another thread recently, the OP's estate agent may be a good source of recomendation for what they might describe as a "sensible" structural engineer.)

David

Reply to
Lobster

Hi

If there is doubt that it is done properly, I personally would get a structural engineer.

A surveyor, IMO, isn't up to the job. An engineer is the bloke wh would be able to ratify/condemn any structural part of the building, whether i was done in a standard way or not, within reason.

A surveyor may feel happy commenting if a modification was done in a standard way - but I'd go for the engineer. Try yellow pages and phon a few and see if they will quote for inspection. IFAIK, the enginee should be backed by insurance, so if he gets it wrong, you may be able t claim for remedial work - ask up front about this.

If you are selling - is it your residence? Do you know when th chimney might have been removed? Try visiting your local Building Contro Office (Borough Council) and see if they have anything on file for you address.

If it was done under building control and there is a signed of certificate, that should solve your problem...

HTH

Tim

Sure someone with more experience of this will be along soon - so wait around for a bit and see if anyone else replies.

thanks for the reply tim,

i have been in contact with afew engineers and surveyors and there price are about the same. the homebuyer survey (survey doen by the mortgag lender on behalf of the bank) mentioned simply the fact that there is n chimney breast and so should be checked. i have been in contact wit building control and they do not have any record of any work bein carried out on the chimney so that option is ruled out. lets hope tha when the surveyor comes, he finds that the chimney is supported at leas structurally

-- teracir

Reply to
teracir

ian

thanks for your advice, some helpful tips there. i am not thinking o doing any work myself but will call in a builder if need be to remov any bricks. i however will remove the floorboards in the hope that can find some sort of suppot. hopefully the engineer can give me som good new

-- teracir

Reply to
teracir

thanks for the advice,

i will be geting a structural engineer in to assess the chimney an recommend if it is well supported or not

-- teracir

Reply to
teracir

On 15 May 2006 14:20:00 -0700, a particular chimpanzee named "dg" randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

And one of the ways that they do that is to get the seller to prove that any work to which the Building Regulations applies was notified to, inspected, and completed by the Council.

Reply to
Hugo Nebula

Fair comment.

But my view is that unauthorised controlled work may only be an issue at sale time if less than a few years old and is significant. If the work is structurally sound then whether it has been approved or not is irrelevent.

The LA is very unlikely to take any enforcement action unless the work is woefully inadequate - in which case it would be all too obvious in the first place.

Admittedly, its an excellent way to for the buyer to get a few =A3000 knocked off the price by stating how 'risky' it is to buy the property with unauthorised works.

dg

Reply to
dg

Would it be obvious without a structural survey?

It may look perfectly OK but how do you know it isn't held together with sealing wax and string and is going to collapse 6 months down the line when the new occupant hammers a nail into the wall for a picture?

I wouldn't want that on my conscience.

MBQ

Reply to
manatbandq

Evidence of recent redecoration or making good, different sound of areas when tapped, different bounce feel to floors and other visual giveaways.

Certain things sound the alarm bells during a survey, and then opening up or further investigation is done or recommended at a later date

dg

Reply to
dg

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