FWIW, We are totally re-furb'ing our 1970's house. In the process of removing all plumbing and waste pipes from sink, we found the problem of slowly draining sink caused by a 97% blocked waste pipe from the sink to the soil pipe, this was over the entire length (a good 4m of pipe)!
No drian cleaner or other would have cleaned that lot out, and the smell was beyound belief!
Has anyone tried "jet blasting" heavily soiled waste pipes?
Not as bad as you, but I had about 50cm of solid dark brown sludge in my kitchen waste and about 20cm of grey sludge in my separate w/m waste. Tried coat hanger, plumber's snake - the sludge was too compacted. I ended up disassembling the pipes (in one case having to cut open a solvent-welded joint) and scraping it out with a knife until I could get a coat hanger through it. Then stuck the garden hose down for 10 mins until it ran clear at the outlet.
I did see several sulphiric acid drain-clear profucts, but was too scared to try them.
One lesson - if I ever I install a kitchen or w/m waste system I'll try to put in several access points for "rodding".
John
Not as bad as you, but I had about 50cm of solid dark brown sludge in my kitchen waste and about 20cm of grey sludge in my separate w/m waste. Tried coat hanger, plumber's snake - the sludge was too compacted. I ended up disassembling the pipes (in one case having to cut open a solvent-welded joint) and scraping it out with a knife until I could get a coat hanger through it. Then stuck the garden hose down for 10 mins until it ran clear at the outlet.
I did see several sulphiric acid drain-clear profucts, but was too scared to try them.
One lesson - if I ever I install a kitchen or w/m waste system I'll try to put in several access points for "rodding".
John
You would be surprised.
Once any caustic gets in to that section, it eats away at the muck. Then the flow rate goes up, and any loose stuff is washed away . Further applications of caustic then get into the mess at high strength, and start to boil and gas there blowing still further amounts of sludge in both directions.
If there is ANY flow at all, hot caustic is the first technique to try.
My comment referred to eye injuries, I did not make that clear.
I agree, you should wash the eye (as in let the water from a running tap pour over the eyeball not just dribble a bit of water in) for at least 20 minutes and ideally continue to provide some irrigation for the journey to hospital. At A&E any alkali eye burns should be referred to an ophthalmologist either immediately or, for mild burns, within 24 hours. Acid burns look much worse than alkali burns initially but are (with the notable exception of hydrofluoric acid) generally far less damaging than alkali burns.
Caustic Soda dissociates into a hydroxyl ion and a cation in the eye surface. The hydroxyl ion saponifies cell membrane fatty acids, while the cation interacts with stromal collagen and glycosaminoglycans. This interaction helps the caustic soda penetrate deeper into and through the cornea and into the anterior segment of the eye.
This results in corneal clouding. Collagen hydration causes fibril distortion and shortening, leading to increased intraocular pressure. Additionally, the inflammatory agents released during this process stimulate the release of prostaglandins, which can further increase in intraocular pressure.
The combination of scarring, tissue damage and raised pressure in the eyeball make opthalmic follow-up essential. As an aside the most dangerous alkali as far as eye damage is concerned is Ammonia. Liquified Ammonia gas (anhydrous ammonia) is used in the USA as a fertiliser, it is directly injected into the soil, and a number of agricultural workers are blinded every year in accidents with it.
Not so. Apart from irrigation, treatment of opthalmic alkali burns would comprise:-
Control of inflammation to reduce the secondary effects of the damage. Topical steroids are useful during the early recovery phase. Cycloplegics also reduce inflammation by stabilising the blood-aqueous barrier.
Prevention of infection: The corneal epithelium serves as a barrier to infection. When this layer is absent, the eye is susceptible to infection. Reduce intraocular pressure: Aqueous suppressants are used to reduce IOP secondary to chemical injuries, both as an initial therapy and during the later recovery phase.
Promotion of epithelial healing: Chemically injured eyes have a tendency to poorly produce adequate tears; therefore, artificial tear supplements play an important role in healing.
Control pain: Severe chemical burns can be extremely painful.
Ophthalmic referral for even seemingly minor burns is quite usual as they can be far worse than they look.
As we both agree - keeping it out of the eye in the first place is a really good idea. The danger of putting caustic soda in crystalline form down a sink and then adding water is that in the process of dissolving the caustic soda generates a lot of heat. In a sink drain this can easily be enough to cause the concentrated solution to boil and there is nowhere for the steam pressure to go which results in it exploding the caustic liquid violently upwards out of the drain and forwards out of the overflow.
Mixing the caustic soda properly and pouring the resultant liquor down the drain is equally effective as far as clearing the drain is concerned and far less risky. I agree its also a lot less exciting - but with some things being boring is quite sufficient thank you :-)..
I'll remember that, though our plumber is doing the long run in 2" pipe just to ensure a good flow.
I have occasionally run waste in 1 1/4" rather than 1 1/2" to maintain a high flow velocity. No probs AFAIK.
J.B.
that was precisely the point.
not when youre facing the other way it doesnt - but it only takes one moments inattention for disaster. Dont copy.
Regards, NT
No, they aren't. The "active" Mr Muscle is something quite obscure. Recreating it was goign to cost considerably more than buying it retail - as it was obscure, the only sources were either lab grade or buying it by the tonne.
Although sodium carbonate and sodium hydroxide certainly shouldn't be overlooked.
BTW - the pH of Mr Muscle spray is a little frightening too.
Why is it legal to sell (say) a caustic oven cleaner in spray form.... spray it into the closed space of an oven and the first thing does is blow straight back into your face, eyes, lungs, etc.
Mr Muscle spray appears to be simply caustic soda in some sort of foam.
Having switched the aga off as its no longer cold enough to justify it, I cleaned it all with mr muscle yesterday. Same smell as caustic, same effect as caustic, especially on my hands and arms.
Its a highly alkaline reducing agent, bleach and saponification mixture. To me, only caustic comes close in meeting those criteria.
Because it actually works?
Why is it leagsl to sell a million thimgs that, handle incoprrectly, casue death and mutilation. A router or electric saw spring to mind...not to mention a motor-car.
Well, I never made it to the plumber's merchant but I was in Waitrose and saw Mr Muscle sink + plughole unblocker on sale, so I decided to invest 4 GBP in this (on the recommendation of a couple of contributors to this thread). Having checked the label I can report that Mr Muscle is composed of Sodium Hydroxide (which IIRC is the same as caustic soda) and some other stuff. On reflection, and considering the way in which this tale unfolds, it's just as well I didn't get my hands on the ultra strong stuff that you recommended.
So anyway, Mr Muscle in my sweaty palms I carefully unscrewed the top and discharged the whole bottle into the sink trap as directed. Reassured not to have splashed it anywhere near my eyes I retired a safe distance and waited over twice the recommended duration of 30mins before coming back to it. Naturally I was full of anticipation as I turned on the tap to find.... ... the sink filling at the same rate as before. Bugger.
Two days passed in which I did nothing but resent the whole kitchen. By last night it still hadn't learned its lesson and still the sink was blocked, so I resigned myself to getting my hands dirty. Now I'm not one of the world's most gifted plumbers, in fact it would be more accurate to say that I'm a one man plumbing disaster zone (My toilet has the permanent fixture of a drip-catching bowl beneath the cistern ever since I upgraded it to a flushmaster mechanism and my dishwasher and WM drain into a McAlpine trap topped by a plastic bag secured with a cable tie.)
So perhaps it's no surprise that I was later to be found clumsily twisting to and fro an elbow connector under the sink, only to find that it gave with a jerk and splashed its contents into my eyes. Now having read some of the contributions in this thread re. caustic soda in eyes you can imagine that I was less than thrilled about the situation and so I proceeded without delay to the shower where I spent
20 mins trying to achieve the difficult trick of looking onto the water spray without blinking.One trip to A&E later and having had yellow stain put into my eyes and a huge great telescope of an eye 'scope pointed my way I'm pleased to report that my initial eye wash shifted all the nasty stuff and I only have a precautionary antibiotic ointment course to complete.
If there's a moral to this story is that it's a good idea to wear eye protection when disassembling a sink trap into which you've previously poured a heavier than water drain cleaner which is likely to be still hanging around.
Ho hum.
Yes, but have you now cleared the blockage by dismantling it? I suspected that you would need to do this - as stated in an earlier reply. It's often the best way, and if you do it *before* putting any nasty chemicals down the plug-hole, you're less likely to end up in A&E.
Unfortunately not. Despite removing an unlikely amount of gunge from the u bend and adjacent pipe ends I now find that the sink drains roughly as slowly as before. Clearly the block is further down the pipe which leads towards the main drain, but it is not accessible so I think I either need one of Owain's patent pending Wire Snaky things, or some more chemicals.
I'm off to Gibbs and Dandy shortly to ask their advice, they seem a helpful bunch in there.
Yes, I should have started unscrewing U traps first but I didn't realise how easily removed these compression fit items are.
This is the trouble I caused for myself. It was a bathroom sink with a long outlet, nearly horizontal, and fairly well gunged-up over the whole of it's length. Using caustic as the first thing was a mistake, because it softened the gunge upstream, which promptly blocked-off what little flow there was.
The only solution was to rod from outside. This involved removing the r.angle coupler and vertical section down the outside wall.
I did remember not to stand in front of the (now caustic) gunge, but didn't think of putting on a temporary straight coupler and stub end of pipe, to keep the gunge from the rodding away from the brick wall.
Heh, it's always afterwards that you know how you *should* have done it :o)
Anyway, by way of an update I now have a gurgling, free running kitchen sink courtesy of Owain's (tm) Wire Snaky thing which I bought this morning at Gibbs and Dandy.
It was a sod to get this past the bends in the pipe, but eventually it co-operated and as I pulled it back I found some white chalky stuff and some hairballs lodged in the end of the wire snaky.
What's the best way to clean these things after use? Because of the coiled construction of the wire snaky its whole length appears to be impregnated with gunge. I'm thinking of letting it sit in a bath of bleach for a few hours, unless anyone has a better idea?
Thanks for this suggestion, it fixed the problem. See more detailed post up there ^ a bit.
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