Charge/debit card, no issue number?

[jg.campbell.ng]

My recently issued charge/debit card with a chip (Maestro) has no issue number. I is issued by Bank of Ireland (Northern Ireland), hence sterling and, AFAIK, normal UK rules apply.

So, it cannot be used for online purchases.

I rang the bank to complain. They agreed that it had no issue number; they suggested that some online retailers would accept an order with issue number unspecified; others would accept '1'.

The bank person then went on to gibe me a short lecture on the folly of using a charge card online or for telephone order ... others could get access to your bank account, etc. ... Always use a credit card ...

On reflection, though I was initially unimpressed with the cautionary lecture, maybe they are correct; I am aware of the protections one has when using credit card.

The specific case that prompted the complaint was we making a small purchase, over the phone, from a small local retailer; I figured that they could benefit from the x% that a credit card would charge them. Sillyness on my part? Probably.

Are other UK bank charge cards like this?

Best regards,

Jon C.

[Kosmo]

Did you mean to post this to a consumer newsgroup?

[Helen Deborah Vecht]

[e-mail]

My RBS Maestro does not have an issue number either, but does have a 'valid from' date.

I have used it for many successful online purchases.

[Alistair Riddell]

Royal Bank of Scotland Maestro cards do not bear an issue number either. Online retailers should accept all domestic Maestro cards whether they bear an issue number or not - when an issue number is not present then the start date on the card is normally required instead.

HTH

[jg.campbell.ng]

Ah, okay, that clarifies.

Probably a non-problem, for retailers will soon catch on; and , there a plenty of reasons to prefer a credit-card.

Many thanks everyone,

Jon C.

[John Rumm]

Yup, good advice.

Not only that, if it is used fraudulently, the money is gone from your account before you notice, at least with a CC you have the chance to dispute it before you pay it.

For small purchases you may have actually cost them more. CC transactions normally cost the retailer a percentage cost of the price. Many debit cards cost a fixed fee per transaction - so a proportionately more expensive on smaller transactions.

What without issue numbers, or less desirable for use online? (no, and yes)

[Broadback]

As far as I know none of the credit/debit cards issued by banks and building societies have issue numbers. In fact if you look at the form to purchase on line they always point out that issue numbers are for switch cards only.

[Alex]

Erm,Switch (well, Maestro) cards *are* debit cards issued by banks, and most of them do have issue numbers. Mine certainly does anyway.

Alex

[Peter Crosland]

I have to disagree. My HSBC debit card that bears the Maestro and Cirrus logos has an issue number and expiry date but no start date. My Nationwide debit card with Link and VISA symbols has an expiry date but no issue number. I wonder where your information came from?

Peter Crosland

[nightjar]

Older Switch / Maestro cards which had 18 or 19 digit numbers need an issue number. They are being replaced with cards that have 16 digit numbers, which do not have or need an issue number.

Using an issue number with a 16 digit number card will result in the transaction being rejected.

Better advice would be to only use online retailers who work through a secure third party card processor, such as Protx. The retailer never gets to see your card details that way. From the middle of this year, there will be additional protection, when Maestro insists upon 3D protection, which requires you to give a password to validate your card use, similar to the 'Verified by VISA' system, which is currently optional.

Telephone orders have quite different rules from online sales. The retailer should be able to process the card with the number, the start date, the expiry date, the security code on the signature strip, your post code and house number.

Colin Bignell

[Gel]

Maestro virtually useless in Eire surprisingly though works in ATM's.

I thought idea of dump> > My recently issued charge/debit card with a chip (Maestro) has no

[Andrew Gabriel]

Is that just Maestro, or all Mastercard products?

[jg.campbell.ng]

Okay, I see that my card does have a security code. My retailer confirmed my house number and post code, but whatever 'system' he was using still demanded an issue number -- just like in an attempted online purchase. But I accept that systems will be updated and that I should use a credit card.

Many thanks,

Jon C.

[jg.campbell.ng]

I'm pretty certain that Irish retailers accept only 'Laser' branded charge cards. I never thought deeply about it -- assuming it was yet another currency incompatibility issue.

To be honest, my use of charge card has recently increased only because my credit card PIN doesn't easily spring to mind. I use the charge cards as ATM cards all the time and so know their PINs well.

I live in N. Ireland (U.K.) but, for the past few years, earn my living in southern Ireland. For bank related matters we need two of everything (*), including bank accounts. And when I exchange Euro for =A3, the bank takes at least 2% ... grrr... (*) Except for rugby teams, gladly :)

I would very much like Mr. Blair to join the Euro, but I doubt that this suggestion would find much favour in this n.g.

Best regards,

Jon C.

[Alistair Riddell]

au contraire...

There is no such thing as Switch any more. The Switch brand was dropped in favour of Maestro a few years ago. I don't think there are any cards bearing the Switch logo which are still valid; online merchants are supposed to remove the Switch logo by June of this year at the latest.

At least HSBC are currently using Maestro debit cards bearing issue numbers. Online transactions will not be authorised without this number.

[Andy Hall]

It wouldn't make sense to use credit cards as ATM card anyway because of being hit with a cash advance fee.

If you are obtaining sterling in the north, have you thought about having that account on a different bank, not connected to the south one?

I've found that for the opposite way around (i.e. obtaining Euros from an ATM in the Euro zone) depending on the bank used, the charges can be different, as can the time between when the ATM transaction is made and it hitting the account. This seems to be more effective if said bank is in a third country. If said account is interest bearing or topped up from an interest bearing account, this does at least offset some of the cost.

Had you looked at putting major monthly expenditures in Euros?

I'd very much like Mr. Blair to join the dole queue along with his finance minister, although that doesn't seem imminently likely either.

I do a lot of traveling, and prior to the Euro, my record in a month was transactions in 11 different currencies. Nowadays it's typically 3 and I never bother to change Euros into sterling. As you say, though, there is a 2-3% hit for the transactions. It would be more convenient as well for business if the UK were in the Euro zone - however, each time I visit Brussels I am reminded as to why this would be a bad idea.

In other countries that are outside the Euro zone but which have borders close to it and a migrant work population (e.g. Switzerland), businesses and stores close to the border tend to accept Euros, while those in France and Germany close to the Swiss border will accept Swiss francs. This is at slightly worse than the prevailing rate, but normally only about 1% from what I've seen.

I haven't visited Northern Ireland for a few years now, but is there not something similar, or are you too far from the border to make that intersting?

[nightjar]

....

As I said, if your card has a 16 digit number, it does not need an issue number to work online. Neither should a telephoned order, although that may be a software issue. HSBC machines automatically check for updates every night, but the machine I had before that only updated card details automatically and needed to be logged on specifically to update its software. Having said that, there are cards that cannot be used for any customer not present transactions because of restrictions imposed by the issuing bank.

Colin Bignell

[nightjar]

Cards with 16 digit numbers do not have issue numbers. Cards with 18 or 19 digit numbers - Solo or some Switch/Maestro - do have an issue number.

Colin Bignell

[Roger Hunt]

In article , Helen Deborah Vecht writes

My Gnat Wurst Maestro card has a security number and there is normally a box for this to be entered.

What's it like for transferring money to other accounts. Do you want to try it out?

[jg.campbell.ng]

They are different.

Yes. Mostly is except for rates, electricity, telecom related. For those, I typically lob a 1-2K Euro checque into my sterling account every few months; that costs me 2%.

Some local retailers give a decent exchange rate; e.g. Sainsbury --- approx. current interbank rate, e.g. currently 65.9p per Euro, where a bank would give 65p. B&Q, presumably because they are suffering, and others, give 70p. Petrol is much cheaper in the south. On reflection, I may not have too much reason to grumble.

:)

Yes, see above.

Four miles from the border.

Best regards,

Jon C.