Changing house name ( OT).

[Andy Hall]

Easy. Touch screen tablet.

[Andy Hall]

True, but it still doesn't make sense.

Then the question arises as to whether they are meant to be a business function or a social service.

I'm a bit surprised at the need to send this much physical mail.

I spend about £2-300 tops with Royal Mail and most of that is for having a PO Box and delivery from it. For the amount that gets used, it isn't really worth keeping.

Everything else goes electronically if it's a document or a transaction and all the rest by courier firm.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

And that tends to be the problem with this modern world where profit is all. Some services should be the same price throughout the country, and post is one of them.

[Peter Parry]

Tried that - you need the milspec version to be soap proof and they are far too heavy. Not to mention the battery always runs out just as you are settling into the second glass of wine and an interesting article on machining titanium.

[Andy Hall]

I wasn't thinking of dunking it *in* the bath.....

[Brian Sharrock]

Although I do remember reading that one on its original publication ... Ithought it was entitled 'DO NOT FOLD, STiPPLE OR MUTILATE', I recall reading it on a night watch .... when 'valves' were incandescent and we'd gather awe-struck at 19" racking with memory cores ferrite with 20 microsecond cycle times! "Nah", we said 'it'll never happen!" Can anybody imagine a _Library_ being able to afford a _computer_!".?

[Graeme]

In message , Andy Hall writes

Of course it doesn't make sense, but that is hardly Royal Mail's fault - their contact stipulates that they (RM) have to deliver mail anywhere, at the same price. The same stipulation does not apply to private contractors/couriers. What is needed is a level playing field - then see who copes and who fails.

Please don't ...

Andy, you are absolutely correct, but again, that is hardly the point. RM deliver whatever they are paid to deliver. RM are not in place to censor anyone's mail, and quietly remove the boring or unnecessary stuff. Sometimes I wish they would :-)

Going off on a tangent, there are two problems. Firstly, the spread of computerisation over the last twenty or so years, which we were assured would lead to the paperless office, has created the exact opposite. People now want hard copies of everything. Worse, people realise that the same information is available in countless permutations, and again, they want to see it. Hard copy. The amount of paper used by the average office must have escalated immensely since everyone had a PC and printer.

Second problem is that Joe Public *likes* everything in black and white. The vast majority of people want a hard copy bill, or statement, whether or not identical information is available in an electronic format. People like to file these things away, for whatever reason.

I do like to keep back issues of certain magazines, for future reference.

Indeed. I like paper copies of bank statements when completing yearly accounts, but am happy to print cheap copies at home, as and when necessary. Much cheaper than paying the bank to print and post them.

BT and Royal Mail Group are one and the same, in all but name ...

I file my returns via the web, but still receive what feels like vast amounts of bumph by post.

Plenty of those in Scotland at the moment! I don't receive them, as I don't have a letter box :-)

You will see more of that in the future.

[Andy Hall]

I think we already know the answer to that question. People in outlying areas would pay the true economic cost of the service.

Which is a very good reason for escalating the pricing to a commercially viable level.

They do? I don't know of anybody. In fact I tend to avoid organisations that generate it.

Then it should cost them an economic price.

Yes and no. I keep some, but to be honest, get more value from buying a DVD of articles.

I get the accountant to do that - he can do it whichever way he likes, I don't really care.

Which is another reason for increasing the prices.

[Aidan Karley]

When killing time at the bus station, or where ever else, pick up the Daily Spurt or look in the "massage" classified ads in a convenient paper. Pick a mobile or land line number. Here's 2 from this week's Private Eye - 07776 473 166 ; 08865 557

233. Or if you don't want to disturb the ladies in their hard work, use the numbers for your local Mormons / JWs / Harri Krishnas or the newspaper's newsdesk. Or the last place that you called for dial-a-diahorrea.

[Aidan Karley]

Unimaginative. Hurt their system by giving them a number in hexadecimal. Or binary. Or whatever the current holder of the title for "largest prime number" is. 2^32,582,657 - 1 which is a number of almost 10 million digits, increasing by a factor of about 10 every 8-or-so years. Maybe a bit much.

[Aidan Karley]

[Dave Plowman (News)]

That attitude is far reaching. Do you expect to pay more for electricity the further you are from the generator? Etc.

A country *has* to be run on the basis that essential services are reasonably uniform throughout. Anything else would bring chaos. Of course that doesn't stop big business trying to cherry pick the bits they want purely for profit.

[Andy Hall]

Possibly.

The question then is what counts as essential. Postal service doesn't really fall into that category, especially when there are much more viable alternatives. If mail is delivered electronically, it can be read when the recipient is anywhere in the world - far more useful.

I don't see why.

Nothing wrong with that. It's the best indication of what people really want. If they are willing to pay, they really do. If they are not willing to pay then one has to ask whether it is worth doing.

[Tony Bryer]

Yes, but following your line of argument, people in outlying rural areas wouldn't get phone lines or broadband either. Not at an affordable price anyway.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

You're assuming everyone has a computer and or can use one. This simply isn't so.

[Brian Sharrock]

This 'uniformity of _price_' was the major methodology extant during the post-war period until the sixties. Everything was regulated by the state, I recall the BBC solemnly leading the Six O'Clock News with the announcement that a loaf of bread would now cost one-shilling!'. Retail Price Maintenance dictated that a packet of Cornflakes would cost the same in Central London and the most northerly grocery shop in the most northerly (inhabited) island (Unst) in the United Kingdom. Was it reasonable for the housewife in Central London to pay exactly the same price for her cornflakes as her counterpart in Baltasound? Nowadays, Tesco, Sainsbury, Asda, Lidl , Waitrose .... all _compete_ for our business- sometimes with lower prices.

BTW; I pay exactly the same rate for electricity (I can choose my supplier) whether or not it's sourced from the Gas-fired Generator I can see from my window or the nuclear powered station at Dounreay or the Welsh water at Drynygg. The supplier decides to purchase Electricity form the Generators and it's up to him how he delivers it to my meter. Your; 'Do you expect to pay more for electricity the further you are from the generator? " is a false question dependant on a false assumption.

[Graeme]

Indeed - but they don't. We are discussing the real world here, not some form of Utopia. Royal Mail have to operate in the real world, and therefore have to deliver anywhere, for the same price. Fact.

Yes indeed - and whilst that would doubtless reduce junk or unnecessary mail, particularly to remote areas, it would also penalise every Granny and Auntie who wanted to send a card to a remote relative.

That is due to the rarefied circles in which you move. You already know, I think, that I'm a sub postmaster, and therefore mix with a broad spectrum of people on a daily basis. Believe me, there are vast armies of everyday people who could not survive without written documentation. Well, those that can read, anyway. Your argument also assumes that everyone has, or has access to, a computer. Whilst that is becoming true, there are, once again, armies of people who have never used a computer, and never want to. The system will not change until everyone has easy access to a computer, and is happy to use one.

Fair enough, but switching everyone to electronic bills and statements does not save money - it merely moves it. Someone, somewhere will have to ensure that all these people have a computer, and the skill to use it.

My accountant files my returns, but the Revenue still post paper to me - probably copies to my accountant, too. Helps keep Royal Mail in business :-)

There is only a finite amount of money available (discounting socialist governments, who just print more), and any extra spent on postage will be charged to the consumer, one way or another.

[Andy Hall]

There are even ways to achieve that using wireless, especially where population densities are small. For example, the Swedes have managed it right up in the very north of the country where population density is quite low and home working is encouraged. They've had mobile phone coverage up there for many years.

[Andy Hall]

Then people are going to need to learn. They have managed to use motor cars and to get onto buses and into trains as opposed to requiring horses and carts after all.

[Andy Hall]

No it isn't. This is not a service that is absolutely required. That is the real world. There are other much better ways to do it. Utopia is hankering after something that is decades past its sell-by date - doing things in a given way because we always have.

So base it on weight and size. Besides..... Granny and Auntie can just as easily send an email.

Not really.

The real situation is that they can't be bothered to look and something else because it hasn't been organised for them.

That's their choice. It's not a necessity. Why does some archaic service have to be provided just to cater for the incapable. It is perfectly possible for almost anybody to use something based on a keyboard and screen as a source of information and communication.

For example, decades ago in France the Minitel terminal was introduced and given to every telephone subscriber instead of printed directories.

was enormously successful and people did not have difficulty using it - even old grannies.

That's a crock of an excuse.

One might as well say that public transport should run with horse pulled carts because people don't like the idea of getting into buses.

People who insist on paper bills should pay more - that's perfectly reasonable

They can do it themselves. Why the notion exists that someone has to take responsibility for making sure people have a computer, I am amazed. They managed to buy TV sets without any difficulty.

I managed to stop them doing that.

Which is all the more reason for it to become unattractive to the marketeers.