Years ago my neighbour was struggling to cut up a dead apple tree with a borrowed chain saw. One look at it and I saw the chain was on backwards. Apparently the guy he borrowed it from said "best of luck, I cant cut anything with it"
Mike
And the whole thing about working in a tree by 'climbing' (typically with rope and harness and / or strop and spikes to get up into the canopy) is you don't have to keep hold of a ladder and so have both hands free for use (inc a two handed saw).
This also comes into it for many (professionals):
Yup. Ideally they will also be anchored to the tree with a 'wire' strop that can't be accidentally cut though with the saw, unlike their climbing and safety lines. ;-(
And much of this climbing gear needs regular (6 months?) LOLER testing ....
(archive page but still relevant)
Cheers, T i m
We're clearly singing from different songsheets then.
If a chain isn't sharp, either new or re-sharpened, then I can't really see much point in fitting it on the chainsaw myself.
But then YMMV I suppose.
michael adams
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But hold on. Only just a while back you posted this
So have you now changed your mind about it being permissable to use a two handed saw* in a tree ?
Oh and BTW nobody is suggesting anyone has to hold onto a ladder. In order to develop a strong trunk, the standard procedure for most trees is to remove all the lower branches usually to a height of six or eight feet leaving a smooth trunk. And so short of trying to jump the usual expedient is to use a ladder to get get up to the branches.
*Simply because a saw is two handed doesn't necessarily mean it takes requires to hands to operate. A rope sling or similar around the neck can be looped through the top handle and the saw suspended from that. Certainly when making vertical cuts in horizontal branches All the electrics I've ever used have an instant brake - the saw stops dead as soon as the trigger is released which IMHO anyway means that anyone with any appreciation of kickback and the importance of not binding the saw - by taking two or more angled cuts and removing segments rather than going straight through would need to be pretty dumb to come to grief. The chainsaw is only used for the bulk of the cut in any case. Once the branch start to creak its an easy matter to finish the job with a bowsaw.The safety lines won't be under tension so why wouldn't they drape them behind their shoulder as is standard practice with cords when using power tools.
Relevant how exactly ?
So how often will your average DIY'er be using all this climbing gear ?
Unlike DIY'ers professionals are in a hurry, and need to satisfy insurance companies; who for sound business reasons need to assume that all the people they insure are idiots. Who will therefore need to be kitted out with idiot proof equipment. At great expense natch.
michael adams
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There are times when pros will use larger saws while in the canopy (usually when felling large trees in sections), but its not the general choice of saw when pruning etc.
Note that those instructions cited above are for a non pro user of a light duty non pro *electric* tool. There is a world of difference between what can be made safe enough for someone fit, well trained, and with all the appropriate tools and PPE (not to mention co-workers trained in aerial rescue standing by), as opposed to a casual user working alone without the benefit of much experience, or adequate kit.
You could do that, but it would be stupid IMHO since you would defeat the chain brake that needs the presence of a hand on the front handle.
The key flaw in that argument is "as soon as the trigger is released". Kickback happens fast - the chain will be in your face long before you get a chance to let go of the trigger. The brake is designed so that its activated, and the chain is stopped, by the kickback of the saw itself.
Hard to guarantee when you are falling out of a tree with a saw on full revs!
Hardly ever - hence why the instructions simply say "don't do it".
The correct kit does not make the tasks of working at height, with trees, and with chainsaws "idiot proof" by any stretch of the imagination. Each can be dangerous tasks in isolation, let alone when doing all at once.
My fondness for removing tree limbs with a chainsaw is rapidly fading.
NT
Not when using the underside of the blade, which when lopping branches from above or level seems the most sensible course to take. The teeth on the underside of the blade are moving towards the user. Any kickback on the underside of the blade will be in opposition to the direction of the teeth. Kickback basically means the teeth of the saw gripping the work and spitting it back towards the user. However in this case the work
- a branch is fixed, so rather than the saw spitting the branch back to the user it jumps the other way. Out of the users hands and into the blue beyond on the other side of the branch. The trigger having long been released before any possibily arises of it "walking" around the branch.
In any case chainsaws are so efficient at removing wood that there's no real excuse for anyone to leave themselves open to kickback by attempting to lop branches with a single straight through cut, IMO. I prefer to cut out a v shaped notch widening and deepening it it with successive strokes. Finishing with a bowsaw. Basically anyone doing otherwise is asking for trouble IMO as when the branch starts to bend there's always the possibility of the cut closing up and pinching the chain at the bottom. This has been my experince when using bowsaws and there's no reason to think the same won't apply in this case. Which is why I've never been tempted to put it to the test
michael adams
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It would be worth looking at either a dedicated pole saw, or one that is an attachment to a weed whacker style power head (sometimes called a "pruner" attachment). These mean you can easily lop branches a few meters up while working from the ground, with the only real risk being hit by bits that you have just cut off.
A moderate length one, can also be more safely used on a ladder etc, since the saw itself is far enough away that you can't easily come into contact with it.
a rather large and fatal risk. The one just down weighs nearly 2 tonnes. No way am I being anywhere near under them when they come down.
being on a ladder with a 2 tonne branch dropping past sounds suicidal. Or swinging past, bouncing past etc. I'm not even considering it.
NT
The risk of kickback when limbing is not usually from the direct cut you are making, but from the inherent difficulties of making cuts in spaces with lots of branches. Kickback (in the proper sense) happens with the top quadrant of the nose wheel of the bar hits something. Typically another branch or something you can't easily see from where you are working. That then tries to flip the bar toward the operator.
With fixed limbs that is less of a risk - although its possible to end up launching the cut end at you nadgers.
There is a risk when not on stable ground that a sudden "pull" on the saw might unbalance you. Keeping the saws dog teeth engaged or close to the limb helps. As does fitting a semi chisel chain with properly filed cut limiters.
If I am cutting a thickish branch, then I start with a partial cut on the under side of the limb (i.e. using the top of the bar - so you have to take care to keep well out of the kickback zone) a bit less than a quarter of the branch thickness - i.e. not so far that the cut can begin to close on the bar. Then cut from the top down toward the partial cut. That will stop the branch from folding down and splitting away as you get near the end of the cut, since the position it would naturally try to hinge about is now in the log and not at the bottom of it. It will normally come off cleanly.
One option is to prune it in sections - take the end off first, then work back toward the trunk. That way you are not cutting free massive amounts of timber in any one go.
Yup, not the way to go for that size of branch - but ok for 2" - 3" thick branches usually.
What if you were taking it off, or testing the engine?
Possibly, assuming you never need to take a chain off, or rotate one by hand to test for free movement or a snag / tight spot, only fit them? ;-)
Cheers, T i m
'Taking a tree down' rather than 'felling' and dismantling on the ground.
Cheers, T i m
In article , T i m scribeth thus
Heres a real Pro in action;!...
the last one was a foot thick. Even a 3" length falling would be a hazard. I've got enough kit to do 6", the chainsaw is really wanted for bigger stuff.
Indeed. But I'd sooner use a safer saw for those. Chains are quick but don't exactly have a good safety record.
NT
kit to do 6", the chainsaw is really wanted for bigger stuff.
past, bouncing past etc. I'm not even considering it.
The exact nature of your situation isn't immediately obvious from what you posted.
This isn't supposed to be a cross examination I'm just trying to get it straight in my head
If you're faced with branches which are a foot think then that suggests they must be at a considerable height from the ground. Except maybe for really old trees which are covered by a preservation order.
Which is what makes your ladder comment a bit puzzling unless its an exceptionally long ladder.
Which also begs the question as to how, if you don't already own a chainsaw the "last one" "came down".
First up with that weight and size, as has already been pointed out you'll need to take it down in bits. Ideally you'd want to rope these from above and ease them down slowly.
All my own tree pruning is in suburban gardens, sometimes branches overhanging neighbours gardens, sometimes overhanging a roof. All these have to be secured with ropes both from above and below to stop the branch tipping over or crashing down prior to being cut.
Second up you need to be able to reach the site of the cut safely.
If you can't get to it with a ladder then you'll need to get men in with ropes
If you can do this using a ladder then as has been said you need to secure this with a rope. You can do this prior to climbing the ladder by looping a rope around the branch (the same technique using long poles, an overhanging arm with a latch at the end, and a plumb bob all DIY as is used for the branch ropes) and then looping this through the appropriate top rung of the ladder and pulling tight as you ascend. To then secure it with another rope. This is mainly for dodgy angled branches. (With all loops not on branches to be cut you need a second cord tied through the (metal) loop to ground level to open the loop and pull it back down afterwards. A mistake you only make once.)
Assuming you can reach it, before ever reaching for a chainsaw you can severely weaken a branch - sufficient to make it less work with a bowsaw, simply by drilling a succession of overlapping holes in the topside, making flats with a chisel and mallet to site the drill bit. How successful this would be would depend on the length of the available drill but its advisable not to even try to go all the way through. Basically the branch/section will start to separate due to its own weight and this can be finished off with the bowsaw. It will also be necessary to clean up any remaining stump with the bowsaw afterwards.
However before even starting the above its maybe advisable to make sure you have enough spare batteries, sharp drill bits and bowsaw blades to finish the job in one go.
michael adams
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But presumably anyone willing to fit a new chainsaw without wearing gloves will have already taken off the previous one without wearing gloves.
I fear you've rather shot yourself in the foot there.
I was only suggesting that
a) anyone foolish enough to cut their hands to ribbons simply by fitting a chainsaw chain shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a chainsaw in the first place
whereas you're now suggestion
b) anyone foolish enough to cut their hands to ribbons simply by fitting a chainsaw chain having already cut their hands to ribbons in removing the previous one *should* be allowed near a chainsaw.
Chains have four sides. One with sharp cutting teeth; one with innocuous teeth to engage the wheel; and two perfectly safe flat sides.
You do the arithmetic.
michael adams
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In my own case any obstructing branches will have already been removed with the bowsaw.
Well that's where we'll have to agree to differ them. While "professionals" with their safety ropes, helmets and lightweight saws may be happy making cuts with the top of the bar, the first lesson I learned with chainsaws is to only make cuts from on top using the bottom of the bar. Basically the amount of time and effort saved as compared with using a bowsaw * on really substantial branches of really dense wood makes the effort of finishing the cut off and subsequently trimming if necessary with a bowsaw or pruning saw well worth the trouble.
michael adams
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l. Or swinging
don't exactly
traight in my
The last one was TPOed. I'm not really willing to climb great heights for t his. More interested in doing fallen trees & sections, and ones where immed iate removal is needed.
It brought itself down, landing on 3 walls, 2 roofs & more. Lady luck was i n attendance, no-one was in the way at the time and the roofs are fine. It has now been brought to the ground and everything upto 7" cut. Next job is to chop the main limb into usable wood. I'm thinking of rigging a frame so the saw works like a chopsaw. Accurate-ish cuts will make good use of the t imber, it will become lots of small dimension stuff.
branch ropes)
pulling tight as
Bowsaws take too much time to be practical. We used them this time where no thing else would reach, but not otherwise.
NT
Just so long as your insurers are happy about the rest of the tree, then presumably there's no need to remove any more branches.
As to the chopsaw frame, without even looking I'd imagine there will be one or two youtube videos, if not more, demonstrating that very thing.
As to your original question, with a cheapo saw, I'd be inclined to spread the work over a number of days or even weeks with plenty of tea breaks rather than all in one go. You'd probably need to budget for one or two new chains as well. So a first priority would be to make sure that these are readily available - ideally aimed at that specific make and model (among others) rather than just some generic specification ; and at a reasonable price say around ?15 ish*. 1 minute's Googling should throw up any suppliers on Amazon and eBay if such exist.
michael adams
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