Thanks. Does the sensor obviate the room thermostat? If yes, is it programmable like a programmable room thermostat is, for different heating requirements during the day/week? (This option could be a pain by the way in the case I would endeavor, with the boiler at the far side of an unfloored loft).
If not, what happens if you up the required temp on the programmable room stat without changing that on the boiler control panel?
Kostas
Yes. That function is taken over by the boiler electronics.
Dunno about every type, but mine can be programmed to give different heating levels throughout the day - like a programmable thermostat.
With mine you can buy a remote programmer. I did consider trying to simply fit the one on the boiler (which is similar to the remote one, and easily removable) elsewhere by making up an extension lead, but time precluded this. However, some of the functions on the main programmer aren't duplicated on the remote one. Only the commonly used ones. If you need to play with the weather compensation, etc, you have to get at the boiler. In many ways it would make more sense if it had a USB etc port and you did it all with your computer.
think turbulence, the wind blowing across the open-ish ends creates it
NT
big snip, as much of your reply was just repetition of the same claims
you seem to remain confused as to the claims made. I didnt say most, I said some.
i see youre not getting this turbulence thing
and?
I didnt say it was large, and most of it does go outside, not all. Keep on with the straw man game.
didnt claim that either, but nvm.
obviously both count, and which dominates, if either, depends on the design.
straw man
no-one's asked them
i see youre still confusing 'some' wth 'most.'
Who claimed that? More straw men. the older the boiler the more affected
other factors eg weather variations, gas price changes etc are bigger
figure partly valid if it lasts 10 years, but youre neglecting the value of interest. I've already explained twice now why I didnt make interest part of the calc, because the figure will be very different for savers versus borrowers.
not ignored at all. Its you who insist we're all in debt, but sorry we're not. Just because its a stereotype in todays climate doesnt make it a universal condition.
why do you want to use typical figures? The real figures vary a fair bit, and need to be used to get the right answer.
not relevant
never claimed they dont exist. Feel free to quote me if you think you can.
just wrong
Waffle. Some of us arent in debt.
I never claimed the _typical_ user would be better replacing, I said some would. Put the goalposts back.
Do you really think everyone else is in debt? I guess it fits your inability to get the claims made right.
NT
clearly modern cast iron exchanger boilers dont use the same design as the low efficiency end of the older ones.
and still fact free
NT
The message
from snipped-for-privacy@care2.com contains these words:
Yes but it is *not* turbulent flow and does nothing to promote air flow out of the combustion chamber.
The message from snipped-for-privacy@care2.com contains these words:
And I could same the same about you with far more justification. I at least have made some attempt to trim earlier posts. The problem lies in leaving enough of your nonsense in the text to give context.
Pure Dribble. Can't you even read what you yourself wrote just above.
The message from snipped-for-privacy@care2.com contains these words:
Oh for heaven's sake. Look what you said above. "Exchanger heat is not lost to indoors". And as for it not being large the whole thrust of your argument is that it is the principal difference between cast iron heat exchangers and those of other metals.
The message from snipped-for-privacy@care2.com contains these words:
No one is stopping them joining in either.
Little bit of selective snipping there. Another Dribble trick.
I was putting forward my gas usage as above average. That would be greater than half by definition and thus closer to 'most' than 'some'.
The message from snipped-for-privacy@care2.com contains these words:
Up thread you claimed I was confusing 'some' with 'most'. Didn't happen to be true but I can understand where you are coming from now.
I write "some people ... will need to take out [a loan] in order to fund the installation" and you read it as everyone has no choice but to take out a loan.
I think the time has come to say goodbye. It is no use arguing with those whose mind's are not open to reason and who don't even see the opposing viewpoint.
The message from snipped-for-privacy@care2.com contains these words:
Explained what? Capital is not free, even for those who can finance out of their own resources.
Just for the record my calculation was based on using savings to fund the installation.
In the real world typical figures do matter. Focusing on the factors that appertain to an insignificant few doesn't help the many.
Some boilers have the programmers in the boier and another version that is remote. Depends on maker.
Confused and Roger go together.
Weather compensators can be external stand alone units, but they generally will not modulated the burner, which is highly desirable, and just switch it in and out. Many boilers have integrated weather compensation. The Broag range does, which are "dual temperature" boilers - that means they have the cylinder stat and 3-way diverter valve wired directly into the boiler. When DHW calls it the boiler runs up to max temp or what the boiler stat is set to. When DHW satisfied, it will run on weather compensation control at lower temperatures. Great boilers and good value. The outside temperature sensor goes on a north wall. Cable length in a normal building is not an issue with external temp sensors.
W-B are outclassed at the mo, so avoid them, until the range is updated. Glow Worm have integrated weather compensation as do Valliant, Atmos, ATAG, etc. Lots do these days, evebn Ravenheat. Unfortunately many of the bathroom changers who fit them do not activate the weather compensation, as they do not understand it, and fit a basic crude room stat or programmer stat. So a highly useful piece of electronics does nothing. Compensation increases room comfort and economy.
Answer: You are a plantpot.
Nonsense. You'll get better room comfort with a simple TRV and a heating system running constantly. Economy is a different matter.
Compensated systems work best where the whole house ventilation is also controlled.
I have detected some drivel in my time Roger, but I will have to be honest, yours takes the biscuit.
Yours
Doctor Drivel
Are you talking about closing trickle vents etc and using a heat exchanging whole house fan?
FWIW this is not just idle curiosity - we're just in the middle of an extension/refurb which is going to involve pretty much starting from scratch heating and ventilation wise.
It's really frustrating since despite having neither the architect nor heating engineers nor building control nor (eventually) SAP calculators have had a focus beyond making the thing compliant with Part L. So it's left up to us to make decisions such as "Should we install insulation above and beyond what is compliant?" without much to guide us.
We're considering UFH and this seems to add a lot of control complexity because each loop of pipe under the floor needs its own thermostat.
Ok, I'll toss in what I found out.
Firstly, at modern standards of REQUIRED insulation, the ventilation dominates the heat losses. More insulation is probably a waste of time.
HOWEVER do not suppose that the insulation is as effective as the figures suggest: In may case slumping of rockwool in walls, and the insane decision to have underfloor venting on a raised concrete floor, plus draughts in outside doors, extractor fans and cold bridging, makes for a lot more heatloss, especially in wind, than the figures suggest.
Balanced flue recovery will definitely give better results than bloody
***ing trickle vents.OTOH trickle vents can be closed..;-)
As far as UFH is concerned, yes it needs SOME zoning, but not every loop, no. I run mine with a master stat where its needed - the main living area - and then a secondary stat in the kitchen, because thats got an aga in and the rest is corridors and so on and those are just run open loop, and set on the flow control balancing valves on the manifold.
Sort of, yes. Although I don't have this. Just refuting some of dribbles common sweeping statements when he has read up about something without actually understanding it. If relying on only one sensor - an outside one
- to control a whole house you'd also need to have to make sure you control the heat losses/gains in every room too if it is to 'increase room comfort'
Hopefully you'll get answers from those with UFH.
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