Ceiling spots - threading cables

Page 1 of 2  
Hi,
I am planning to fit about 6 12v ceiling spot lights in an apartment living room. There's an existing ceiling rose, that I'll be getting rid of, and as such I plan to wire the transformer to the supply to the existing light. My only concern is running the cables to the spotlights. I expect there will be joists in the way, and I don't know if there will be any space between the top of the joists and the floor of the next apartment. It's an old custom built block, about 20 years old.
I had read about people having to cut out portions of plaster board around joists to then cut a hole in a joist.
Is this difficult?
How would I patch up the hole again, so that it would not be noticible when painted?
Any suggestions would be very welcome.
Thanks,
Ro
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
To avoid using transformers & line voltage drop, look at the 240v lamps.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Biscuit wrote:

To avoid replacing bulbs on a weekly basis, look at the LV versions.
I have been in this house now for two years since first lighhts went on.
In that time I have replaced COUNTLESS mains bulbs, but the only LV bulbs that have gone
after a couole of years of CONTINUOUS DAILY USE of at least 4 hours per day, are the half ones that came with a couple of rail units.
I got about 50 LV 50W lamps from Newey and Eyre, AND NONE HAVE GONE IN TWO YEARS. They are used in all the corridoors and bathrooms and the kitchen, so they are not just 'occasional use'..
Friends who have mains units on average seem to have one a week going in winter - about 5% failure. That implies the average weekly life is no more than 20 weeks of heavy duty.
I seem to be getting better than 200 weeks average. My bulbs cost about 2 quid each. The mains are a bit cheaper, but overall the savings are there on LV.
I had one supposedly thermally protected toroidal transformer go after a few weeks. None of the electronic transformers have gone.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

You must have something weird with your supply. I've got probably more lighting than average much of it mains bulbs (RO 80, etc) and find they pretty well always give their design life.
--
*I don't suffer from insanity -- I'm a carrier

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Dave Plowman wrote:

Well I don't know what service life is, but nearly all of my 40W candle bulbs have been replaced in that period. Say 90% The cheapo LV ones have had 50% failing two years. The Newey ones have not failed at all. All the 60W standard bayonets have gone in the two years. So it would seem that the average life of a mains incandescent bulb is a tad less than a year under heavy use, but the better LV spots are looking more like three years, with a mean life of 2 years on cheapo LV. It MAY be that the cheapo ones are on electronic transformers, that came with them, of a higher voltage output than my normal Newey toroids. With which the non dimmed units are equipped.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Reckoned to be 1000 hours for a gls type.

Ah - say no more. Candle lamps seen to go straight out of the box, sometimes.

My RO80 types of which I've many seem to have the same sort of life as a gls, and I've not had LV types for long enough to form an opinion. But they are looking good. I'd happily replace all the RO 80 ones with LV, but of course I'd like the smaller fittings too, and that means replacing plaster, etc. I've also got several PAR 38 fittings, and some of those have 25 year old bulbs...
--
*Time is fun when you're having flies... Kermit

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Hi All,
I've got some 40W screw-in spots in a 4-way cluster in the kitchen, the kind with the screw diameter about half that of an "average" bulb. I think the best record for any bulb's life is six months, and it is pretty much guaranteed that at least one is out at any time. I tried switching to a dimmer thinking that lowering the light level might extend life, but no joy.
Yet, in the lounge, from the same supply (and fuse), is a 5-way cluster of 40W candle bulbs that haven't blown ever in the three years I've lived here. Usage is pretty much the same for both rooms. From the same double dimmer switch are another two candle bulbs on the wall that have average lives. I'm thinking about submitting the ceiling ones to medical science due to their longevity. Not as good as this one though: http://edition.cnn.com/TECH/9703/25/longest.lasting.bulb /
Any ideas on the kitchen ones? It's bankrupting me, and it's also a PITA replacing them due to their height/location. Other bulbs in the flat seem fine.
F./
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sun, 7 Dec 2003 04:44:07 -0000, Fraser wrote:

Do the maths on how long the cluster will have been on in those 6 months. 5 1/2hrs day = 1000hrs about normal bulb life...
Why do these fail rather than the candles? Probably excessive heat build up in the fitting. I expect they are fairly well enclosed in plastic around the back of the bulb.

Do you run them dimmed though? Another cause of bulb failure is vibration, is there any visible shaking of the filament (watch one of the light patches) when someone moves about in the rooom above, bear in mind children are very heavy footed. B-)

Don't buy your bulbs from a DIY store or supermarket. Find an electrical wholesaler and buy 10 or so at a time at roughly 50% the "shop price".
--
Cheers snipped-for-privacy@howhill.com
Dave. pam is missing e-mail
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Dave Liquorice wrote:

Nah, Buy em 50 at a time. :-)

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

True, but the rate of failure is at least double all of the others in the flat.

norm suggested that as well. I'm not too sure in this case, having just taken a look. The glass part of the bulbs are entirely open to air, with only the screw having a plastic surround, and this isn't especially tight either. There is a 2mm thick piece of donut-shaped decorative plastic that sits around the bulb at it's widest point like a halo, but I make sure that it's never touching the bulb. The support legs for it are also quite thin.
Plenty of ventilation. Would ambient room temperature be a factor? The combi boiler is in the kitchen and the thermostat isn't...usually nice and toasty in there.

Yeah, I run them dimmed mostly at night....mostly. Except for just now where only two of them are working!!
No shaking (or noise) from above either, big old sturdy building with elderly people above me.
I'm starting to get the opinion these bulbs just suck!

Mailing bulbs through the post? ;-) Interesting...will look into the prices tomorrow!
Does anyone have any preferences for bulb manufacturer? Do some last longer etc?
F./
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Kitchen lights tend to be used more.
--
*Whatever kind of look you were going for, you missed.

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 01:15:33 -0000, Fraser wrote:

Maybe they are on twice as long? I fitted a PIR to the kitchen light in my old flat 'cause I was for ever leaving it on (3 x 60W spots).

I recognise the style. Shouldn't think heat is the problem, how hot does the plastic shroud to the base get after a few hours?
The other thing is vibration. You might not hear the the noise, you need to watch the intensity/position of the light patches to see if there is any shake there. A tiny movement in the filament shows quite dramtically in the light patch.

No, most towns have at least one wholesaler, might have a "Trade Only" notice but business is business buy a reasonable quantity with cash and I doubt they'll refuse you.

Not that I have noticed. I have a sneaky feeling that GEC and Osram all come out of the Ring factory in Leeds. I don't have a particulary high opinion of Ring...
--
Cheers snipped-for-privacy@howhill.com
Dave. pam is missing e-mail
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Dave Liquorice wrote:

I thought Ring was made in czechoslovakia or summat.
They are the WORST bulbs I have EVER bought, bar NONE.
Some didn't even work on initial plug in.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 10:49:28 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"

That's just a depot, (it's about a mile away from here) there is a "Factory" shop on site there.
Osram is the 2nd biggest manufacturer of lamps in the world based in Germany, their lamps were sold here under the Wotan brand. Oddly at the same time G.E.C. was making lamps and selling them under the Osram brand, probably all due to reparations after WW1. Recently G.E.C. lamps merged with Osram.

It's just an importer of cheap bulbs sourced from anywhere at all. Some 40w golf ball bulbs I bought there recently lasted less than 1 week! If anybody has any suggestions for a long life substitute for these I'd be very greatful, my ceiling fans take 2 of them (ES fitting) and candle lamps won't fit (too long).
DG
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Osram had a factory in Hammersmith but during WW1 this was taken over by GEC. Previously all their R&D work had been done in Germany. Clifford Patterson, who was at the time church secretary at my church and a lighting expert at the nearby NPL in Teddington was head-hunted to set up an R&D facility for GEC which he did, initially in Hammersmith, moving to purpose built labs in Wembley in the early 1920's. This work developed into research into valves, radio and radar, also the first fluorescent lamps. See the last few paras of http://www.sda.co.uk/twickurc/whoswho.htm on our church history pages for further reading.
--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Osram was part of GEC (called GEC Osram) when I started working for GEC in 1983, and the lamps were available through the staff discount scheme. A few years later, GEC sold Osram (to Siemens at the time I thought, but certainly a German company).

I've got a couple of Ring 500W halogen lamps, which completely silvered over after a few hours use (not on a dimmer). I think they forgot to put any gas in the quartz tube.
--
Andrew Gabriel

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 8 Dec 2003 14:10:42 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

A-hah! I was wondering just recently where you got your profound knowledge of fluorescent tubes from.

GEC Lighting, but seemingly not Osram, was sold to Siemens. Bit about it here : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/streetlights-l/message/260

It's a crying shame we've abandoned a great world leading industry because people just want stuff cheap, and now this is what we get.
DG
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Actually, nothing to do with that. I worked for GEC Computers back then.
I have always been interested in lighting, and made various discharge lamps and control gear for standard discharge lamps when I was at school. Don Klipstein seems to have saved something I wrote about making my own fluorescent dimming ballasts here: http://members.misty.com/don/f-dim.html
Reading Borough Council (as then was) were happy to give me a number of decommissioned streetlamps of different types, still working, which I experimented with. I've maintained the interest in lighting always, and kept reasonably up to date with what's going on in the industry.

I could believe that.

Another excellent UK company in this area was Thorn Lighting. They got taken over by EMI, probably sometime in the 1980's, and my perception was they lost their edge. Finally, there was a management buyout, but to finance this, they had to sell the lamp manufacturing to GE in the US (nothing to do with GEC in the UK), and Thorn Lighting only retained the luminare/lantern part of the former company. In addition to the lamps themselves, they had previously manufactured control gear too -- I don't know what happened to that part of the business.
Mazda (god of light) was one of the Thorn lighting lamp brands, now used by GE. (Actually, I think GE always had rights to the Mazda name in the US, even before it bought that part of Thorn Lighting.)
--
Andrew Gabriel

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

sworn and deadly enemy to Lucas, Prince of Darkness ;-)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Those screw in bulbs are the work of the devil. I'm always replacing them at my mother in laws flat. I suspect the failure rate has as much to do with the fitting as anything else. I believe that ventilation is important to reduce the effects of thermal cyling on the bit of the bulb where the glass is sealed / joins the metal bit. If the thing gets too hot repeatedly the seal goes, air gets in and kappow !
I'd be looking to replace the whole fitting and go for a different type of bulb. They're crap. And not cheap crap either.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.