Perhaps you ought to read things properly and engage your brain before replying. I didn't say not to use it I said use something else if you can, and if you do use it be careful. The guy had stored it carefully, but had not realised that a chrystal had fallen on the floor. IMHO it doesn't hurt to just to illustrate that accidents can happen
I have seen many children burn with water and my advice would be the same - BE CAREFUL. There is no alternative to water but there is alternatives to caustic soda and they should be considered.
a) don't use hazardous materials if you don't have to (as AK said) , the ultimate form of access control b) store hazardous materials safely (as AK siad), the next best thing
Not sure what you are disagreeing with! (And, yes, I have used caustic soda, but I don't store any if I can help it).
Exactly - "use something else if you can". Why? How does that help children? One good alternative to sodium hydroxide for paint stripping is methylene chloride based stripper. Is that a safer alternative to sodium hydroxide? Most would say not.
The problem is that your assessment of the danger posed by sodium hydroxide is based solely on the incident you described, and not on an understanding of the effects of sodium hydroxide, the alternatives available and the risks associated with them.
Your statement "use something else if you can" implies that anything else is preferable. This is far from the truth. Stripping paint by definition requires a violent process, whether this is mechanical, thermal or chemical. Whatever you do will have risks associated with it. Sodium hydroxide is probably one of the lowest risk options.
I'm disagreeing with "use something else if you can", which implies that anything is preferable to sodium hydroxide. I should've snipped the quote a bit.
Guy's hospital poisons unit (which holds the national database on all chemicals and poisons) would tell you that there is very little that is worse than caustic soda. Call them if you don't believe me
Always add the dry pellets to water, never the other way around. Stir continuously mix in a stainless steel or plastic container and use a wooden spoon or a stainless one.
Do not ever mix caustic + aluminium or leave a caustic soda solution in a plastic bottle for storage. Even plastic mixing vessels will, eventually, crumble into dust, so stainless is best.
Other than that, read the label, wear gloves and eye protection, don't be a prat.
I think you are being a bit cavalier with your inferences. IMHO most reasonable readers would have inferred that AK's meaning was "use something less hazardous if you can" and not "anything is preferable to Sodium Hydroxide", as the thread was about hazard.
There are, occasionally, posters on this ng who just say "don't do this, it's dangerous" - I understand this can annoy. AK did not do this - it's not that helpful to react as though (s)he did!
Po "Guy's hospital poisons unit (which holds the national database on all chemicals and poisons) would tell you that there is very little that is worse than caustic soda. Call them if you don't believe me"
You will see that my initial assumption, though premature, was apparently correct.
At the risk of prolonging the discussion, I would say
a) AK's original post was OK, you misinterpreted it and now everyone is getting riled and the thread less objective!
b) It may well be that of the things the Guy's poisons unit sees on a day to day basis caustic soda is as bad as it gets (because of its caustic properties). Clearly there are worse poisons but they are rather uncommon.
I would *choose* (which I guess is where you are coming from) not to store caustic soda at home, as I have children around. Personally I would regard it as being sufficiently hazardous that I would not rely on getting them used to it and keeping it in a "not to be touched" cupboard. The cautionary tale merely demonstrates to me that this is a sensible precaution. It's little comfort, if you have a badly burned child, to know something else might have been worse! If the situation demanded it, I would certainly use caustic soda, have no fear! I would, now, take even more care over cleaning up or disposal (vacuuming rather than brushing etc.). There are also, undoubtedly, occasional d*ck-brains who read this newsgroup who shouldn't be let out on their own and, no, the rest of us aren't responsible for them. Identifying hazards, however, is a perfectly reasonable thing to do (and even somewhat exaggerating them if necessary) as long as you don't actually tell people what to do.
It is normal with stripped wood to have little bits of paint and filler left in place. I would either let them be, or else carefully paint over them with a wood matching colour before varnishing etc.
Or if youre really determined, use a powered rotary wire brush, but it will leave a wood surface that I dont know how to describe: it rips out the soft pith but leaves the hard fibres, so you get a finely ridged finish.
Sadly they won't, Toxbase is NHS or subscription only.
In that case they're either stating "caustic soda causes most of our serious injuries" or they've seriously skewed their stats by incidence (caustic soda is after all extremely common).
NaOH is far from the most toxic, or even the most corrosive chemical that you can buy "over the counter" on a "typical high street". Look at common industrial chemicals and there are much, much worse.
Thanks for the advice. I never imagined it could cause so much controversy !!! I will take on board the useful advice given here and give it a try as I believe that, armed with knowledge and a little common sense, anything is achievable.
Thanks to those who gave advice. Thanks for nothing to the rest of you.
Indeed, if used by an adult who isn't aware that the correct and immediate abtidote is gallons of water immediately, around children.
Get it into your tum tum and the hydrochloric acid should fix it. Its what happens in the way down that is scary.
Parents who haven't a clue about basic first aid and chemistry - probably the norm these days since advanced school chemistry probably consists of 'how to make bread using yeast and sugar' - shouldn't be usingf anything more complicated than a mobile phone.
Unless you are prepared for an exciting reaction that generates very concentrated hot alkali. And a lot of presure. Ideal for poipe clearance.
Nah., Its biring that way round.
Glass is OK, unless it cracks. Stir with anything, but be aware what you start stirring with may not last the course, including your finger. :-)
Indeed. Once you hace cleaned your plastic drain, flush properly with a little vinegar. I used to cklean my horrid tea stained plastic sink with caustic crsytals and boiling water poured on. Got rid if the teastains, and quite a few pairs of jeans, Plastic did degrade, but it was on its last legs anyway.
Definietlty watch out for eyes. Disagree about gloves: If it gets inside you will be seriously burnt before you can get the buggers off, but a splash on the hand is no worse if rapidly washed than a splash of hot water - and not NEARLY as bad as a splash of hot fat.
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