Cash safe removal?

[A.Lee]

An office I do occasional work for has asked me to see if I could take away their old safe. No problem, when do you want it taking I say. Err, well, we need to open the door first.

They broke the key in it around 4 years ago, and have never got round to removing/repairing it, a locksmith came round but it would have been £500 to repair it, and that is more than the value of the safe.

So, I have to be a safe breaker to remove it. It is of similar construction to this one here:

the hinges are more substantial, and at the top and bottom of the safe. The hinge castings are welded to the main body - the weld seams are clearly visible. The first idea was to get out the angle grinder, cut through the hinges, take off the door, then remove the bolts holding it down.

2nd thoughts turned to maybe there are bolts on all four edges of the door when it is locked, so cutting off the hinges may get me nowhere.

Has anyone took one apart? And any tips on getting it open? (and no, there is nothing in it. Apparently!)

Thanks Alan.

[PCPaul]

AFAIK from watching programs about making the things (and from working inside a few...) the door/hinges will be the hardest way to get in.

The walls on the ones I've seen are a couple of layers of thickish steel filled in between with concrete. If you have access to the sides (it's not bolted to the floor inside a cupboard, is it?) then maybe cut a patch out with a grinder or oxyacetylene, see if it's concrete inside and if it is break that up with a big SDS+ drill thing and a chisel.

Cut the inner wall as well and you're in, enough to get at the bolts anyway. Unless they fitten tamperproof ones for a laugh?

Any idea how it's bolted down? And what the floor is made of?

[Andrew Gabriel]

Reminds me of a report on fireproof safes I read ~15 years ago, based on research of building fires mainly in Northern Island.

Most of the large commercial ones do an excellent job of protecting the contents through a fire. In bad fires, they may fall through floors of a building or have parts of the building fall on them. The trouble is they can't be opened after this has happened. Gaining access usually requires the sort of measures you have outlined above, and the contents of the safes were usually destroyed in the process of trying to open them, even though they had survived the fire and jarring of the safe.

The moral was that fireproof safes should be located in single storey buildings whenever possible.

[Steve Walker]

A magnetic broacher like

could cut 50mm holes, if you were lucky that would give enough access to get to the floor fixing bolts. Or daisy-chain a series of smaller holes to remove a plate-sized section. Likely to knack a few expensive bits, and take a long time.

Before resorting to that, how about attacking the bolts from the outside? Crowbars and driving wedges underneath, to try and create a small space for a hydraulic spreader wedge to fit into? The floor bolts probably won't be high-tensile, so might yield to a reciprocating saw.

Frankly though, they might still find it quicker, cheaper & cleaner to pay the locksmith....

[David in Normandy]

You could get it opened or removed for free. Just talk=20 about it down the pub. Pretend to be drunk and talk too=20 loudly saying it had at least fifty thousand pounds cash=20 and jewellery in it. :-)

--=20 David in Normandy

[dom]

What do the scrotes do?

They nick a jcb and claw it (or more usually cashpoints) out, to force open later.

Or perhaps you could call in your local terrorist cell - they may be grateful for somewhere to test the latest batch of homemade explosives.

[mark]

I have dug some big safes out the concrete on various jobs including for the Royal Mail.Have also burnt them open.Neither of these is a quick job and personally I would not do it for =A3500. Other problem is that when you get it out,unless it is cut up the main scrapyards won`t touch them. Mark.

[Andrew Mawson]

round to

seams

nowhere.

The safe I currently use looks very similar to your picture and had been 'attempted' before I bought it from G&M in Ashington. Someone had cut a flap in the back, and failed to get through the concrete revealed by peeling it back. It was about 4mm thick steel followed by

3" of presumably reinforced concrete, with an inner steel layer. I just hammered the flap back and welded it up. I would have thought that an SDS drill would have got through the concrete given no time or noise constraints, then the inner could be cut with an angle grinder.

If I really had to open one like mine, I'd use my Stihl 12" petrol disk cutter with a diamond blade and water coolant - must lock up my Stihl saw away from my safe come to think of it!!! (but what would the tealeaf do with software backups I wonder )

AWEM

[Andrew Gabriel]

Northern _Ireland_. How on earth did I do that?

[Peter Parry]

There will usually be bolts on both sides at least so removing the hinges will simply leave you with a set of removed hinges and a still locked door.

Depending upon the quality of the safe it may also have some internal layers of hardened steel and carborundum designed to prevent drilling and snap drill bits. It can also be designed to snatch angle grinder and hole cutter blades quite severely if attempts are made to cut through.

Any brute force attack is likely to involve a lot of noise, mess and disruption over a prolonged period. A good locksmith should be able to retrieve the broken key and open the door using gentler methods but there are few locksmiths of this standard so they may well have to look around for a competent independent locksmith.

[George]

Broke, I presume it broke at the shaft? in which case the locksmith might be able to drill the broken part of the shaft in the keyhole with a drill bit then insert a reamer with anticlocwise thread.

[The Medway Handyman]

I reckon you have that sussed Peter. These things are designed to resist brute force & ignorance after all. The people who make them aren't stupid and have years of experience.

[geoff]

In message , A.Lee writes

PLenty of dynamite

tell us where and when, so we can come and watch

[john]

The back and sides are the way to get in from speaking to someone that was a home office approved locksmith! Don't bother with the usual high street locksmiths as they will be of no use and quote large figures to put you off. Go for a home office approved one as they will have far more practical experience and know how to get in each type of safe.

[Vortex]

Looks like a perfect application for a tool like

Scott and Virgil were pretty handy with these on Thunderbirds :-)

[Harry Bloomfield]

'You were only supposed to blow the bloody doors off...'

[Huge]

That won't work. The hinges are only to support the door when it is open. There will be bolts into the hinge side of the door opening, as well as the other 3 edges...

[Frank Erskine]

Fein MultiMaster

[nightjar]

It may cost less to get it opened without leaving it in a useable condition.

The door is always the strongest part of a safe and, as you suspect, there should be bolts on all edges. They may even be temper resistant, which means they will lock in place if attempts are made to force them. If you want to open it, you will need to attack it from the back, but it will take time, as it should be designed to resist most forms of cutting and drilling. If there really is nothing inside, a thermal lance would definitely get in, although the locksmith would probably be cheaper.

Colin Bignell

[dom]

I doubt an average data safe has relockers, maybe not even multipoint locking

general advice here:

If there really is nothing inside, a thermal lance would definitely get in Not something you would use inside an office building (or find on special offer down B&Q):

't dismiss forcing it off it's anchor bolts. If there's a solid bit of concrete structure nearby to brace against, try using a hydraulic jack to lift it slightly from the floor by jacking against one side - then saw through what you can reach or lever from below. Expansion bolts don't always bite in as well as they should, particularly if they have been installed amateurishly - you may be lucky.