Can you put a mains socket in a cupboard inside a bathroom?

[Tim Watts]

I'm pretty sure it doesn't.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Can't see why it would if the plug is correctly fitted.

[whisky-dave]

Isnt it simialr to a sticker falling off saying "warrenty void if removed". All it means is the company refused to guarentee something that could have been 'f***ed' with and then put back together so it's not noticable.

I;'m not saying they are right to claim this it';s just what they say.

It;'s similar to lifetime guarantees where the con is that you have to have a reciept why ? If a product is faulty it goers back to the manufacter for replacement NOT the store, as where you brought it should be irrelivant.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

You can see if a plug has been replaced.

They say lots of things. Just whether they would stand up in law is a different matter.

A warranty goes to the person who purchased it unless specifically transferrable like with some cars. So proof you are the original purchaser isn't unreasonable. And sadly lifetime doesn't always mean what you might think it does.

[NY]

Normally, the receipt is the proof of *when* as well as *where* the device was bought. It's irrelevant whether you bought your vacuum cleaner (or whatever) from Currys, John Lewis or a local one-off private electrical shop, but if the warranty is for two years, then proving *when* you bought the vac (and so when the warranty clock starts ticking) is crucial.

However you are talking about a lifetime warranty, so the concept of "when the clock starts ticking" is irrelevant. All I can think is that the manufacturer wants to make sure you've bought the appliance from an authorised reseller and have not acquired it as a "grey import" that has bypassed the normal distribution channels and may not even be authentic (it could be a rip-off clone). Also, it's a check that the appliance isn't nicked and bought from a man in a pub, no questions asked :-)

When I bought my camera (see 35 mm SLR thread) I had the choice of paying more from some suppliers for one with a manufacturer's warranty, or less from other suppliers for one that was a grey import that has the reseller's warranty but no manufacturer's warranty. I took the calculated risk to go for the grey import, hoping that I'd never need to call on a reseller's warranty that might not be worth the paper it's written on. As it is, the camera is just coming up to the end of the manufacturer's warranty period and I've not had to claim, so I made the right decision.

[charles]

If a product is faulty it goes back to the store from which you bought it. You have no contract with the manufacturer.

[NY]

Though some appliances (eg our VAX vacuum cleaner) actually have a sticker saying "in the event of a fault, do not return to store; instead phone (manufacture's phone number)". I've always wondered how that squares with contract law :-)

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I think it depends. If it fails within what would normally be considered a reasonable life, then yes the retailer is liable. But if it really is a lifetime warranty, the maker can assume responsibility after that time.

[whisky-dave]

and some say if the sticker has been removed they can tell especailly if yo u've lost or damaged it. Haven't you noticed that it;s only the sticker the y are worried about not what you've done. This is partucually true for hard drives is where I still notice it most. So if I removed the sticker even without even plugging in teh drive it's wa rrenty would be void NOT because I've used it or not used it purely because the sticker is removed.

It most likely will as that's what you agreed to by purchasing the product, if you don't agree don't buy.

So lifetime warrently is that the life of the person buying teh product or the product itself I thought it wss the product itself rather than the purc haser.

[whisky-dave]

Why does that matter ?

Obvioulsy but I;'m talking about lifetime guarantees and guarantees of 50,0

00 hours for an LED bulb. All, they need to do is have a date stamp on the buld. 50k hours is over 5 years so if yuor 50k hour life bulb dies and the date stamp said it was made in 2015 you should be able to get a replacement fro m the maker without a recipt

why would that matter they are selling the product, so maybe they should se ll it on the grey market.

that has

Well such things a sfake can be sorted unless they truely are a s good as a n orginal.

So ....

why does that matter the buld has a lifetime guarantee.

I had that choice in teh 70/80s too.

I did the opposite lucky I did as the canon A1 didnlt work properly out of teh box. so it went back to the shop and they ordered a new one.

Me too. I didn;t think the risk of saving £20 or so worth it.

[whisky-dave]

A friend had a canon camecoder 500i that was sent back to canon under guarantee NOT to the store.

[John Rumm]

That may well be the case in that situation.

However, the legal responsibility belongs to the merchant it was bought from.

Now, they are perfectly entitled to appoint an agent to handle that responsibility if they want, and that would include appointing the manufacturer if the manufacturer agrees to it. The manufacturer may even encourage merchants to let them handle returns and claims in some cases, but all this is in addition to your statutory rights and not a replacement of them.

None of that means there is any automatic requirement for the manufacturer to honour any guarantee with an end user that they did not sell to, since they have no contract with them - implied or otherwise.

[Scott]

It might be the life of the company, if the company goes into administration (as Comet customers found out).

[Scott]

Quid juris: do you think the retailer has a duty to honour a guarantee that exceeds statutory rights?

[whisky-dave]

How does a merchant know how long any product will last ?

If a manufactuer guarantees a product for life then why should they merchant support it for life ? It's a con that you've fallen for as most people have to.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

The law doesn't allow unfair conditions.

Lifetime is actually the life of anything until it dies. Which makes it a very ambiguous warranty.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Suppose it had been stolen from the factory. Would you expect the maker to honour any warranty on that?

[whisky-dave]

If it can be proved to have been stolen then no. What about the CFL light my energy supplier sent me for free ?

[whisky-dave]

what do you mean by that ? What happend with he VW compensation ?

Exactly. so why trust va lifetime warranty over a 1,000 hour or a 50,000 hour warranty. Does the time start ticking when you leave the shop or when it gets delivered ?

[John Rumm]

They don't exactly. They will however usually only put on sale a product of "merchantable quality" since they know the buck will stop with them. Obviously they weigh up their expected returns costs when deciding on product lines to carry.

They don't have to. The certainly need to offer the "normal" 1 year warranty. Then there is a bit of a grey area as to whether they should also offer more depending on a rather more woolly reasonable expected life criteria, with a statute of limitations of six years. Legal precedent would suggest they should, but they will also generally put up resistance to anything over the year.

There is a fairly simple concept in law, that you can't bind a third party to the terms of a contract that they have not signed and have not even seen.

So for example, I can't enter into a contract with someone else that makes you liable to send them a £50 gift voucher for Christmas.

If a manufacturer is going to promote a product as having a lifetime guarantee, they will also have to come to an arrangement with the retailers to provide cover for that, otherwise the retailer would be reluctant to sell it.