buying a 2nd hand car

[Jimmy]

Yeah, but you've still got to be very careful. Rusting sulls can still scupper you even when the engine is only just run-in if the car is

10-yrs old, but little used.

Personally, I'm trying to get my financial maths hat to figure out what is the most cost-effective price-range to spend on a car. (For someone like me that wants a practical car that's cheap to run but prformas na dhandles a bit better than average). Obviously it's not £110,000 for a Ferrari, and obviously it's not £1000 for a car than needs £500 worth of work every year... Somewhere in-between, but where, I wonder. One has to take into account the cost of using credit (well, I do, anyway).

I've noticed that one used-car dealer local to me ahs nothing but cars priced between £4000 and £5000. Perhpas that's a clue... or perhaps he's just got his needle stuck in the £4K-£5K groove.

A very rough rule of thumb I may have tentatively identified is that cars such as I described above cost about £500 a year to own (not including running costs). For example: A £500 car with a new MOT will, on average, give you about one year of driving before you have to scrap it to avoid undue expense. And a £1500 car will last about 3 years before the same thing happens.

Anyone agree with my calculation abobe, or do you humbly beg to differ? I wanna know.

J

[Jimmy]

AFAIKR, this was not the case with my local auction house - at least, last time I red their terms which addmittedly was 13 years ago.

Consequently, every time I think of car auctions the big question pops up in my pre-frontal lobe: "Why would someone want to sell their car at auction?" and the cynical answer then pops up: "Because it's probably a lemon and they don't want the buyer to be able to find out what's wrong with it before they buy it." Call me a cynical old so-'n-so.

I must pop over to that auction house and read the latest incarnation of their Terms and Conditions. If they have modified them in favour of the buyer, I will definitely look for a car there in the coming days.

Regardless of what the auctioneer's terms say, I wonder if there is any consumer law that has the final say about whether you can take the car back within 24 hours - cap in hand, lol - and demand your money back, 'cause you ain't happy or whatever.

J

[Dave Plowman (News)]

The trick is to find out where the car has come from. If it's just come off lease - and you do get some high mileage older bargains - there's no reason to expect it to have any faults at all - although you'd need to check things like tyre wear or body damage which you can do without driving.

Same with trade ins to a main dealer that are simply too old for them to sell. When someone goes to a main dealer for either a new or recent secondhand car, there's no reason to suspect the one they've traded in has faults.

But a private sale 'banger' with half a dozen previous owners is quite likely to be being sold because it's clapped.

However, to get the first two classes of cars, you'll have to go to a large auction.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Only if it's sold with a warranty, or is not as described. And neither is likely on a cheap car.

You can't drive a car at an auction. A pro will want to know the provenance of a car more than almost anything else that can't be seen by looking.

[:::Jerry::::]

Did anyone watch Top Gear tonight (Sun), they managed to by an old V6, all mod-cons, high mileage (?) Volvo 7xx series from a Volvo dealer for 1 (one) GBP - the car was an trade-in that wasn't worth sod all but would have cost the dealer to dispose of at the scrap yard so happily sold it on for a quid !

[Mark]

That's not unusual a friend's son works in a large posh main dealers and px' s over 8 years old are sold for £10 to staff or trade, they just them out the way Quick. The £10 is just to cover admin, its were my Volvo 740 estate came from, it's a strange feeling when the petrol you've just put in the tank is worth 3 times the cost of the car!

[James Hart]

I bet paying the insurance on a £10 car is even more galling.

[Michael Mcneil]

I saw the Top Gear rerun tonight and watched Jeremy Clarckson scoop he pool with the cheapest car for under a hundred quid.

He bought a realy nice old Volvo for one pound. It had 2 months MOT on it too. One of the tests was to drive it into a brick wall with a sandbank behind it. He hit it 10 mph faster than the others and it was the only one to drive away.

As soon as I saw it, I was thinking I wouldn't mind one of them. Yes it is a gas guzzler and it is an old car but it was also a nice one and for

100 quid I was thinking "Not bad, not bad at all."

Then he explained why it was so cheap. Apparently the dealers will take them in to sell a new car but have to pay a hundred or so to recycle them. He said that the lot was full of BMWs and stuff, all going for a song.

[Michael Mcneil]

That is the problem isn't it?

That and stripping the interior to get rid of the smell of urine/cats/spilled milk.

Still for a run around or a starter, especially if you just need it for carting bags of cement around on weekends.

If you made a living travelling long distances regularly or just lost a few bob every morning because it wouldn't start........ Nah...

OTOH, you wouldn't be paying for more than 3rd party and you wouldn't worry about parking it on the side of the road even in a rough neighbourhood.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Save your time. I KNOW teh answer.

Its as cheap as you can get.

Sub £1000 cars and preferably sub £500.

In general even a cheap car will depreciate by £500-£1000 a year if its anywhere new, let alone cost of serviceing.

An old banger that actually runs, for < £500 that does a year with no servicing, is good news. Of course getting rid of it is expensive, but the normal trck round here is no taxc, no insurance, and set fire to it afterwards, which makes it even cheaper.

The very worst cars to buy are brand ne, as tehy lose about 15% the moment you drive them away, and the £1000-£3000 pound car, that is basically a tarted up 500 quid one, and falls to pieces after 6 months.

Best deals if you want relaibiluty are teh ones that get traded for new ones and cost aboutr 2/3rds te price - 4 years old, 50k on the clock. Especially unpopular makes - skodas, automatic nissans etc etc.

(For

No. Get the 500 quid car and CHUCK IT after a year. Sometimes they limp on for two.

If realiabilituy is an issue go for middle aged as I said. 50-100k on the clock, well looked after, and 4-8 years old.

Those will be cars as above, that he thinks are good enough to offer a guarantee on.

'trade' cars that go for less, are a different market.

That is pretty fair estimate. HOWEVET depending on your skills, you may be able to get a car with some little problems, cheap, and fix those and get several years out f a 5600 quid car..

Conversely if you get a timing belt go on a 60,000 mile car that cost you 5 grand, and need new engine or part thereof....its more than 500 quid a year.

[The Natural Philosopher]

No. A lot of cars go to auction that have come into the trade as p/exes, and are below the standard of the dealership.

If you atke a 12 year old Volvo and trade it fopr a newer one, in a dealership,. they will take our old one and throw it straight into auction, beacuse they don't want the responisbility of selling it.

If its relaible but atty, it will go on a long time, and some fly operator may take it cheap, spry it up and flog it for a copuple of grand profit. Or you might pick it up at a sensible price if no one fancies it that day.

[Rob Morley]

ISTM most of the cars sold at auction are trade-ins that the dealer hasn't got room or time for, or private cars with short MOTs. Occasionally you get a good private car but with an unrealistic reserve, and some cars are tarted up nails that some Delboy is trying to make a few quid on.

[Jimmy]

I felt like crap when I got up this morning, but that made me chuckle! If only semtex was available over-the-counter. Anyone else got any (preferably more practical) tips on making a car dissapear cost-efectively? Someone near here drove one over a cliff and let the sea deal with it.

And some even 20%. With a £250K Ferrari Enzo, that's £50,000 down the drain as soon as you drive it off the forecout. Makes ya wonder!

That was my exact philosophy from the very outset when I started driving. I'm not sure if that was due to in-born financial shrewdness, or lack of cash. Probably the latter.

And made in Japan, perhaps... Jap cars strike me as more reliable, on average than most.

I take it you meant a 500 to 600 quid car, 'cause I'd be fumin' if I didn't get several years out of a £5600 car...

Yes indeed. Things like that are so important to consider. My present car got badly keyed the other day, on not one, but two sides. I can't tell you how glad I was that the car was only worth a couple of hundred quid and on its last legs. Likewise, when I forst got the car, someone pranged it - during a parking manoever, I think. And the perpetrator never owned up to it. It would have been en expensive repair had the parts not been readily-available from a scrap yard.

A friend of mine once welded 4" steel tubes, cross-wise to the front and rear of his car so that anyone doing the above sloppy parking stunt on him, would most likely suffer a lot more damage than him. Seems like a good ideea to me.

J

[Jimmy]

I probably need to hunt around a bit harder. I think what I want is a Sierra (preferably the 4x4) (and possibly the estate version). Folks in this group seem to favour Volvo estates, but they seem a bit too cumbersome for my tastes. What do you all think of the Sierra as a practical car for sub-£1000 ?

J

[:::Jerry::::]

Hum....

Folks

Ho, hum - err, where did I see that Volvo for sale....

A sub-£1000 4x4 Sierra estate, hope you have a larger budget for the repair bills (or can afford to write off the purchase cost), you wont find one for that sort of money that hasn't been 'boy-raced' or has major problems, or both !

Nothing wrong with a 7xx series Volvo, unless image is more important than being practical, or you live on a postage stamp plot.

[The Natural Philosopher]

If you want a dirt cheap 4x4, get a series III landrover :-)

I'd go jap really. They never have the cachet of the german cars, and don't rot like french and italian ones.

My ideal 'banger' would be something like a 10 year old Nissan or Toyota

- too big to appeal to the 'motoring on a thimble of petrol a day' and big enough that it probably won't have been thrashed into a wreck. So.

2 litre or bigger Japanese Possibly automatic. tatty but sound. Price < £400

[Huge]

They were always hard to find, even when new.

[Jimmy]

Thanks for the comments. I've never owned a deisel. I've driven a couple, years ago, but never owned one. In yesteryear, the usual advice was: avoid them, because if the engine goes wrong, the cost a fortune to put right. Things may have changed. What are they like nowadays? I guess deisil is still much cheaper than petrol, yes? But what about the pleasures of driving a deisel-engined car? Is it still enough to make you end up on Prozac? Or are they making them so smooth and quiet and vibration-free these days that you'd never guess you had one under the bonnet?

J

[Jimmy]

I would, but the aerodynamics don't convince me somehow ;-)

That's my inclination - except that Ford and vauxhall parts are so much cheaper.

If you pick 'em right. Unfortunately my 1988 Honda succumbed to rust terminally on its 17th year. The bill was £300 just to weld the rotten sills. But I hear that rust-proofing improved after 1994 or so. I even saw a 1994 Honda the other day with plastic sills (or plastic sill-covers) That seems like a step in the right direction. God knows why they want to make the sills a structural item anyway! Bring back the old "chassis" and make it out of aluminium so it won;t rust.

That category could suit me too - though 2-litre automatics tend to be thristy. Most Jap engines seem to outlast the cars they are built into, provided the user hasn't used battery acid in place of engine oil! It's the body work you've gotta watch, it seems. Rust around the sills, seatbelt mountings and suspension fixings et al.

Sounds about right... thanks for the input. Gimme a 4x4 turbo-charged Subaru estate - or even a hatch. Then I can always be first away from the lights - even in the wet - and save a shipload of time over the next few years! Screw this getting stuck behind a 25mph geriatric lark! - especially when they honk at you angrily for overtaking them! lol

J

[Mark]

"Why would someone want to sell

Yes but do the maths on this, I live in a rural part of the country the nearest auctions for cars is 60 mile away so its going to take two chaps x hours and plus x amount of fuel to take a £500 car for auction, or £50 for a breaker to squash it when they could be selling a 25k new car. the local market is awash with older Mondao/Cavalier size cars nobody wants them, everyone wants new or nearly new clean Low mileage FSH cars within this sector.

4x4s and small cars still sell ok down here even Metros! Strange world. IMHO The Volvo 7 series is the most reliable practical versatile cheep to buy throwaway skip on wheels car ever made. :-)