OK, now I understand - even though the wire is within 150mm of the edge of the door frame that I'm trying to get around, this would not be considered a "permitted zone". Is this correct?
In that case, what kind of conduit is needed? Most of what you see in the DIY shops is the PVC plastic kind. Is that what should be used or does it need to be metal? Seems a bit of everkill in this house as I can guarantee that such thing is not used anywhere else in the house! I guess that's the difference between how things were done a number of years ago and how they are "supposed" to be done today.
Steel conduit. The purpose is to stop someone banging a nail into it (perhaps after you've moved) and killing themself. Did you have a look at the link I posted? I fear not, since you'd have known about the permitted zones and also about the conduit!
I did have a look at the link. But given what I see already installed in this house and other's I have been in I wanted to seek further clarification! What you see in practice in most homes and what is supposed to be done are often very different. So you can stop fearing not. Would you rather people just made assumptions about what it was suggested they read instead of asking further questions?
I answered it in my first reply. However, your defensive replies indicate that it's probably not worth pursuing the other concerns further (and there *are* other concerns).
My apologies if I have been defensive - I think I have been defensive as I found the tone in your replies somewhat condencending. Perhaps the impersonal manner of these groups has led to this so, again, my apologies.
I am interested in the other concerns if you are willling to share asI do want to do this job right but I also want to learn at the same time.
What you see in practice in most homes and what is
Yep. Seen a new build with the strapper between the hall to landing switches running diagonally between the two. I only saw it because the owners mounted a picture:) The wiring was not DIY.
The logical thing to do there would be to run the cable up to just below the ceiling and the horizontally within the 150mm allowable zone [1], then vertically down to the new socket.
I would prefer (by a good margin) to put the horizontal run in the ceiling void.
On 15 Apr 2007 03:36:33 -0700 someone who may be snipped-for-privacy@frigate.plus.com wrote this:-
"If I have been defensive" is followed by, "I think I have been defensive".
Any "tone" was probably because people regularly come to this group and are told that what they are doing is unacceptable. They appear to take offence at this and then compound their error by appearing to want to be told that what they are doing is acceptable. In other words they didn't really want to learn, they just wanted a decision they have already made to be "legitimised".
Yet you have already implied that you don't want to do this job right. You imply that because things have been done in a particular way in the past that is how they should be done in the future.
thanks very much for the enlightenment. I've never used the trick myself but had heard of it and would no doubt have used it at some point in the future, naively thinking I was covering myself.
Having just looked into this a bit further... it appears that OSK.exe actually just mimics a keystroke event, so as far as any keyloggers are concerned, any characters entered via OSK.exe are recorded as keystrokes.
However for the benefit of anybody who may be interested - there is a pretty effective way round this - see:
- still can't be 100% guaranteed foolproof, but basically the idea is when you enter your secure information, you have another random window open and randomly enter text into that, interposed with characters entered into your password (swapping between the windows using mouseclicks). Quite neat IMHO! (even if the article is written by a Micro$oft employee...
No I actually implied that I had seen so-called prfessional work that was at grest variance to what would now be considered "acceptable". This has now led to confusion on my part and I was seeking clarifiaction as to what the experts on here thought I should do. I was seeking the advice of this group and given that I had casue to trust it in the past I was planning to follow it.
Instead I seem to be getting grief because I either 1) want to do the job myself 2) I'm not happy with comments about not reading links when what I was doing was attempting to make sure that my understanding was correct and 3) people pointing out that I don't really want their advice but instead just want them to rubber stamp what I want to do!
I don't know how I have managed to annoy yourself and Bob and I apologise.
Thanks to the folks who have afferede some advice (and that includes David and Bob!).
On 15 Apr 2007 08:21:14 -0700 someone who may be snipped-for-privacy@frigate.plus.com wrote this:-
1) it was done correctly some time ago, before acceptable zones were put in the Wiring Regulations. IIRC that would be more than 20 years ago, though ISTR it was good practice before then.
2) it was done incorrectly, more recently.
Neither is a reason to do the same thing now.
I have not noted anyone doing so in this particular case. It is only occasionally on this DIY group that people are advised not to do something themselves. When that advice is given it is nearly always because someone has demonstrated that they are not competent to do it themselves.
I have not checked it, but IIRC the link says what the Wiring Regulations say. Someone went to the trouble of providing that link.
Of course a suitably qualified electrical engineer can do something else that provides an equivalent level of safety, though they would have to argue this in court if necessary.
That is the impression you gave.
I'm not in the least annoyed. However, I advise you to enclose the cable in earthed metal conduit, put accessories at the "corners" along the run, or re-route the cable.
There are two aspect that will lead to confusion. Firstly you will encounter work that by today's standards are not acceptable, but was ok at the time it was done. Since there is no requirement generally to bring old installs up to modern standards the work will stay like that until altered or replaced. Secondly you will find substandard work by any standard. So it is not always safe to draw too many conclusions from what you see.
Chill out, some folks in this group get too far up their own backsides sometimes! Hang on it there, you will find out all you need in the end.
Yes, that is exactly what I am trying to do. Your diagram is very much the situation here. What I was trying to determine was what I needed to do in order to protect the wiring runs. I had already chased the wall to the ceiling and them run across to drop down the wall to the new socket. I had gone all the way to the top of the wall without realising that this was a "permitted zone". What I was worried about was the vertical runs in the wall but it woud appear that they are OK as they are in line with the old and new sockets? I had chased the wall quite deep as it is a breeze block wall but I'm probably short of 50mm - but not by much!
Thanks very much for your patience and help John, it is greatly appreciated.
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