Building materials for bread oven

[Mary Fisher]

Has anyone used stone for this purpose?

Mary

[Tom]

No, but I lived in a small cottage (1870s) in mid Wales 25 yrs ago. In the stone wall adjacent to the fireplace was a bread oven. It was approximately a 3 ft diameter hemisphere and lined with a creamy/yellow coloured brick which I assumed to be fire brick, the floor of the oven was of the same brick. The cast iron door (approx 12 inches square) was set back (9 inches?)into the stone wall and in front of and above the door was a flue which connected with the fireplace flue. I was told by a local anciene that a wood fire was set within the oven and when the right time or temperature was acheived the ashes were scraped out and the bread inserted. I assume that they used the special formed brick (expensive?) in preference to the stone (cheap) for a reason. Maybe the local slatey type stone splintered with the heat of the fire, or perhaps the brick had heat retaining qualities. That's all I can contribute, hope it helps. Cheers Tom

[bigcat]

stone is thermally conductive

NT

[Mungo "two sheds" Toadfoot]

Do you know what kind of stone it is, Mary?

Si

[Mary Fisher]

Yorkshire stone of course!

Not sandstone, millstone grit I opine.

Mary

[Mary Fisher]

Thanks, Tom, but I do know about how it works and have seen a lot of the type you describe. I just wondered if anyone had every used stone themselves in building one. The usual way, for an outdoor one, is to make it of earth, mud, clay or whatever and replace it as it wears or washes away. But we have lots of spare stone and it occurred to me that we could utilise it for a more permanent structure. It's not going to be portable or a weekend one like my mate used to cook pizzas in in the early days of the Glastonbury Festival.

I realise that it's not the run of the mill diy project and that it's probably a largely suck-it-and-see one but you never know, we have some odd ... sorry, very clever ... people round here :-)

Mary oh - did you ever use yours?

[Mary Fisher]

You don't say!

Mary

[Mike]

There are types of stone that can be used but most UK stone will fracture under the heat. Hence brick was used. I've an original 19th century metal oven plate (used for turning the bread into the heat) if you want one.

[jacob]

Me to the same - a bread oven at Groes Avon, Cefn Coch, Montgomeryshire. Just the local brick - unformed. Ours was more oval than spherical. Built by constructing the side walls first then filling with a wet sand heap as a former and laying bricks up and over then remove sand. Ordinary lime mortar. Details in Mary Hartley's "Cooking in England". Charged with furze, twigs and dry sticks. - light fire with door open so smoke comes out and up chimney. When glowing red hot with white ashes throughout, thoroughly rake out all ashes (into ash pit in posher versions) and install bread, shut door. If not burning white/red risk of kipper smoke flavour. When bread done remove then put in pastries, cakes etc at lower temp. Remove and recharge with furze etc which then dries in the remaining heat ready for the next baking day. Whole weeks baking for large family done in one half day. We tried it out and it worked perfectly but was too big for our needs. Some have doors which freestand without hinges by a handle/bracket device.

[BigWallop]

You could make the outer skin look pretty with natural stone, but the lining needs to be made of something that will not splinter and crack under the heat involved in charging it ready to bake with. Most common linings are made from fire clay or mud, which is smeared over standard clay brick. You could look around for the best type of brick that will hold the heat.

Here's an interesting little page to read through:

fun to make.

[Mary Fisher]

Ooh, yes please!

Mail me, my address is above.

Mary

[dave stanton]

Mary

Might be an idea to look at some web sites which describe ovens from Roman, early Britains ?. See what was used years ago.

Just a thought

Dave

[Mary Fisher]

They often are. Ours will be, the constraints of space or, in our case, the base stone, demand its best use.

I don't know that one, I do have Dorothy Hartley's 'Food in England' ;-)

But she's talking about a particular type, in a particular region, built with local materials.

I have several very detailed plans for building them, all written by people who have done it and use the ovens but they're all American and make them from earth, which is temporary. I want something more permanent.

My question wasn't about what has happened in the past, accounts of how to use them or even (no matter how interesting) people's own actual experiences of *using* them. I want to know if anyone has *built* a bread oven themselves, using stone?

That depends on the size. And one day is more likely, heat is retained for a l-o-n-g time.

I'm pleased you tried it. There are only two of us but I already make large batches of bread at one time, to save electricity. And we eat a lot of bread. Whatever else I cook I do lots and freeze the surplus so I'm confident that a day's produce won't be an embarrassment. What's more, it will free up time during the rest of the week. I'm not wanting to make work for myself - I want the quality of a brick/stone/earth oven baking with the use of carbon-neutral fuel which will also use up timber which would otherwise be land-filled.

Yes, we haven't decided on that yet but it will probably be a thick iron plate, there's one kicking around the garden ...

Thanks,

Mary

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[Mary Fisher]

Pretty isn't an issue.

Have you done this or seen it, if so, where have you seen it?

It's like all diy tasks, you have the idea for one project but it demands several others to be done before you can even start! That's one reason I want it to be permanent.

It has been fun, though, as well as exhausting. Still building the piers to support the base.

Mary

[Mary Fisher]

You think I haven't? They were used even into the C20th.

What's more, I've seen plenty in mediaeval dwellings.

Actually though, you've just given me an idea, I know someone who cooks at Hampton Court Palace ... I'll ask him.

Thanks,

Mary

[Mary Fisher]

Right, I read it. It's very similar to all the other instructions I have in that it uses mud/clay.

Have you ever tried baking mud bricks in Yorkshire?

Our conditions are slightly moister and cooler than New Mexico ...

Mary

[dave stanton]

Will you be taking photos Mary whilst you are building this oven and then post them somewhere so we can take a look. I would like to see it for one. And to know how the bread turns out.

Dave

[Mary Fisher]

I've been takin gpictures but not of every stage, just those which are a record of how the area is changing.

But we're only at the stage where the piers have been built at the moment. The large stone flag has been raised as far as we can safely do it - it's very heavy and I have no foot protection. It's standing on two concrete wall blocks, each on a car ramp. No 1 son is calling in on his way home from work to help with the manly stuff.

Then we'll be cookin'!

Well, after the oven itself has been built!

The bread will be splendid, I'm sure, as will be the meat, the pies, the puddings, the cakes, the biscuits ... I'll be even fatter :-)

OK, I'll take more pictures - then talk to you about how to view them. I'm curious about 'tinyurl'.

Mary

[Mary Fisher]

I can't get a reply.

I've discovered that there's a book specifically about masonry built ovens, might be worth looking for.

Mary

[Peter Parry]

Not built one but I was involved peripherally in one built up near Richmond from local stones (remains of an unidentified building). It was a large free-standing oven built in a rectangular shape with a cooking compartment to the side of and slightly higher than a fire area. It was designed to take about 6 large loaves I think.

The doors were of steel and once belonged to some unidentified agricultural device. When the Mk1 was first fired up it was a bit like being in a battlefield with bits of stone exploding all over the place. The first loaf (placed in from behind a makeshift shield) had granite shard rather than sesame seed dressing. It was obviously not going to survive or produce edible bread.

The Mk2 was rebuilt using a firebrick lining for both the firebox and oven sealed with fire cement. It worked well after that although the bread produced was a bit hit and miss as temperature control was lacking. I seem to recall the chimney length being quite important to get a good draw.