Im about to embark on a small project to build a kids play fort / climbing frame, similar to something like this :
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it would be modified greatly and gives a general idea of what I am referring.
My main concerns are on what timber to use and treatments etc (especially as it will be used by kids!)
Firstly, I was just looking a tanilised timber like the stuff used for decking, though Ive only ever seen 3" posts, and to be honest, I would much prefer to use 4". I had the idea to use ordinary 4" fence posts, planned down slighlty to avoid splinters, but a bit worried about removing the treatment by doing so. Ive spoken to a couple of timber merchants, but to be honest, Im less than convinced on what they have said. What I imagine I would need would be pressure treated timber for all my requirements. Where I get if from is another question!
My second part is to do with the fact this post would in effect just be sitting on top of the lawn. (All of these things are) My obvious concern here is rot - and probably quite quickly - given its position. What would you suggest is the best solution to this predicament? Sitting on top of concrete - or in concrete is not an option. I assume it can be done - since all these playsets are done is this way, so would think its completely down to the treatement the wood has been given.
I'd be grateful for any advice on this (and so will the kids! ;-)
Your best bet is to find a timber merchant who treat their own wood - this will give you a huge range of sizes of treated timber to choose from. I'm lucky to have two such places withing half an hour's drive.
As far as the treatment goes, as long as your kids don't chew on the timber frame, their exposure to the chemicals used to treat it (CCA or not) will be minimal - they will be receiving a lot more toxic compunds in the food they eat.
CCA is by far the best treatment, but is being phased out. I can't remember the date, but it's not long. This means that many yards are still in the process of using up their old CCA stock, while others have already switched to the new treatment.
If it's pressure treated you should easily get 20 years life out of it.
Another good source is fencing suppliers and manufacturers. They generally have various sizes of pressure treated timber and posts and also often treat on site.
Avoid the DIY stores because their treated timber is often just dipped.
One important thing to do is to dip any cut ends of timber in solvent based preservative for a day. Cuprinol Wood Preserver (various colours available) works well for this. Again once the solvent has evaporated completely out it is safe for children and other animals.
To save time, it's worth precutting as much of the timber as you can so that you don't waste time waiting for it to be dipped.
I used 3 inch posts and half round preasure treated softwood for mine, Its still fine after 3 years. I just ran the belt sander over stuff to remove splinters. I painted (the kids painted and I did
2nd coat when they were in bed) with a branded garden furniture paint, that came in a few colours.
I did use 4*3 for the top rail that the swings hang from. You have to wath for tipping when the swings are in use, and it may be work getting some spikes to "nail" it down.
Fence posts can come with the bottoms treated with a brown preservitive, this contains arsnic, and has rules about where you use it which would exclude garden furniture.
The normal pressure treating process for timber, (normally the green finish, but it can be brown as well) - often call Tanalised - though AIUI this is a brand name for a specific companies process, uses a chemicals containing arsenic. It's also referred to as CCA - Copper, Chrome and Arsenic.
For the posts, I was looking at Fencing posts. Obviously these are cut very rough and would need to be planned and sanded. The timber merchant I spoke of, actually said this wasnt advisable as the depth of preservative wouldnt be that deep and I would end up taking most of it away. I always thought pressure treated meant it penetrated through the wood? (Or is it likely that his timber was only dipped? It was Alsford BTW - a national timber merchant.)
Would that include Wicks? I ask as they seemed to have a fair choice of sizes of tanilised wood for Decking.
By this, are you referring to the posts that will have contact with the ground, or all the wood used? If the latter, it will cause delays as I am pretty much building to a plan, but as I go! My plans currently are changing by the hour, but I think I have now finally settled on pretty much every part of the design, with the exception of the roof. Problem I have (as always) is lack of space, and utilising it as best and safe as possible. One problem, is the garden itself is on 2 levels. My idea now, is to have the fort close the the dividing wall as possilbe and using a bridge to gain access to it, rather than a ladder.
Right at the very bottom of the garden, I have a large 12'x10' shed. The slide will be adjacent to this. But instead of coming out of the front, I intend on building support so it comes out of the side, parallel with the shed and side of fort. (Probably difficult to explain, but think of a capital T shape, and thats a rough guide.) The support for the slide and "entrance" will be an approx 24" overhang. I was looking to just continue the floor support to do this, made stronger by support from above rather than below with a further post. Would you think the overhang of 24" square, with this type of support would be an issue? I dont think it will be a problem, but thoughts are most appreciated.
The overall idea, is for the second level, to virtually be a self contained, no fall out zone. (ie the only exits at standup height is via the slide platform, or bridge. I intend also to add a climbing stone frame to the front, which will mean it will be more exposed, but no real chance of accidently falling out, and enough gap to climb in.
The "wasted" space at the bottom, I intend to use tongue and grove to make a second playroom, with wiindows (framed holes) and a door. Obviously this "room" will be raised by a platform like the second story will be.
Like I said, utilise as much space as possible. A big advantage by doing this, is that it should also give it even more rigidity - not just more play area.
I just wish I could draw! It would be good if I could post on webspace the overall view of my intentions with a few details. Pictures are easier to illustrate than words! ;-)
You are probably correct that 3" will be more than sufficient for usage. The platform itself is going to be 5'x6' - so a little bigger than normal and the reason, I really think I must use 4".
painted and I did
a few colours.
Obviously before it gets used, all the wood will be sanded down corners rounded. I had thought of using varnish to finish it off (on everywhere except the flooring). Having looked at one of these frames from TP, theirs did have a very smooth finish and think it was varnish they used. Not sure though. Having said that, I am completely open to suggestions - and painting hasnt been ruled out.
tipping when the swings are in use,
For sure, I appreciate the importance of making sure it doesnt topple. I do also intend on doing as you descibe and having a swing or climbing rope attached from the front.
What would you think is the best way to make this completely secure? I was looking at just banging in some wooden spikes and screwing it to the base. (several of these - all the way round the complete base - probably 12 in total.) I would think metal would be better? Also what depth would you think would be sufficient?
contains arsnic, and has rules
It all gets complicated and confuising! I wonder what retail manufactered playforts use?
Not always - I recently bought some that were pretty smooth.
If the timber really is properly pressure treated, then there is some depth of penetration, but you wouldn't want to plane off a lot of material. It is better to get stock that doesn't need it.
They are probably a bit better than B&Q but I would still go to a timber or fencing merchant.
Certainly the timber in contact with the ground should be. Other stuff you can do later with a brush, but dipping it is a better solution for end grain timber. If you can't do that because you are cutting and building as you go then for the timber not in contact with the ground it is not too big an issue.
Remember that the dust is harmful. You will need a respirator and a safe place to dispose of any waste.
Last time I went to buy some tanalised roofing laths the builders' merchant asked me what I was using it for, as they were no longer allowed to sell it for use where anyone might come into contact with it. In that particular case I was using it behind skirting boards so it would not be accessible.
We are just looking at providing play equipment for our local community park. I have a load of brochures here, and they all go out of their way to stress that they are not using the CCA process. All seem to have their own preferred treatments.
Square posts tend to be rough sawn, though you can get some that is smoother meant for decking, pergolas etc. Round posts are usually pretty smooth - presumably because of the rounding process. - relatively cheap as well IIRC.
I'd try a local saw mill.
Not just DIY sheds, I went to pick up some treated fence posts from a fencing supplier. Got there and I saw that they were just dipping the posts. I realised then why the price was so good.....
From what I've noticed most of the stuff from the sheds is normally pressure treated, and anyway says if it is.
Preferably try not to cut the timber going into the ground
I don't know - but I look ed at making my own - and it was more epxensive even using the cheapest source of timber - than I could buy one ready made for. The killers were buying the rope nets and swings etc.
Check out -
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- and look in the "catalogue Sections" there - they have a very reasonable (granted it's 500 quid but compared to the price of some) system there.
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