Broken induction hob - who pays?

[Norman Wells]

Then it's unsuitable, ab initio, for a cooker top that will, even in the most careful of households, be subjected to the occasional tap.

[Cynic]

Absolutely. It is also unsuitable for making windows from, as they too will be subjected to the occasional tap, even in the most careful of households.

[Ed Sirett]

The oven is a totally seperate issue unless in some way the functioning of the one is dependent on the other (I doubt it), the fact that the oven saga pissed you off, (which BTW seems easy enough), is irrelevant to your claim for a fit for purpose hob.

This is time for a polite (is that a problem?) but firm letter explaining the situation about the HOB not the oven (it is irrelevant). Followed if needed by a small claim court action for the cost of the hob. You will probably not recover the unfitting/fitting charges for the HOB.

If you have already paid the 191.98 or the shop can in anyway make out that the bill was for the replacement of the manufacturers supplied replacement unit you just need to move on and learn

1) Don't make your impatience a hostage to fortune, Christmas is a regular event. 2) Know where you stand and keep being polite.

[Rob]

10 days after this, the microwave combination oven went kaput.

This was on December 16th.

I rang Champs immediately who said that they would arrange for an engineer to come out, but whatever happened they would ensure that this oven was working for me for Christmas - we were catering for 12 people. We had been living in the chaos of house renovation since April 2006 and it was important for us To Do Christmas.

The engineer duly arrived on Thursday 20th, located the fault, produced a spare part, which was faulty. They would be unable to provide a new spare part before Christmas. I offered to drive wherever I had to collect the wretched thing from whatever factory, but of course this was not an option.

I rang Champs.

They rummaged around and then said chirpily that they could get me a replacement oven. My relief was immense.

"28th December do you?" they said.

Relief short lived.

I pointed out that Christmas fell before then.

Eventually they were pleased to offer a compromise whereby to secure an oven, I would get an upgrade. This included features I didn't care about (like a grill, which I didn't want, the other oven had a grill) but that was fine until they bashed on their calculator and said it would cost us a further £158. Apparently this was a bargain. I pointed out that I had spent about £3,500 with them (fridge, camera, hoover, hob, ovens). Still, they had me over a barrel and knew it.

I gritted my teeth and bore the pain. These things happen, I resolved to forget about it.

But then a few weeks ago, I placed a pepper pot to the left of the hob, and just caught the very edge of the glass. The hob broke. The pepper pot (small, glass) needless to say was fine, just dandy. The hob needed replacing for safety sake and aesthetics. But apparently despite the item clearly not being Fit For Purpose if its integrity was so very fragile, this was not covered under their guarantees. I said that clearly there was a weakness if the first one arrived cracked and then this went after a couple of months after nothing more brutal than the marginally erroneous placing of a pepper pot. Induction hobs require heavier pans than normal hobs and so one would assume that if they were braced for the task of taking Le Creuset, for example, then a little pepper pot would be child's play.

I was told it would be about £300.

That the engineer's first half hour would cost £67.50.

I went into hysterical free fall prompted not only by the prospect of penury by hob but by the aggressive attitude of the soi-disant area manager.

Our bill is £191.98 which, although less than orignally mooted, we have still had to pay and which I don't feel we should have had to pay.

So why didn't you tell the company that ?

*YOU* are the one that agreed to it. Some people do realise their mistake and try to damage things in order to get something for nothing. Not everyone is honest.

Do we have a case agains either Champs or Siemens, and if so which one?

Why would you have a case against either company for *YOU* upgrading a product, then breaking it as you admitted?

Thanks

Edward

[Rob]

No, the retailer sought to sort a different issue (broken oven) by offering a different oven on which we had to pay the difference.

NO! You demanded a replacement by a date that they said wasn't possible, so they offered you an upgrade and you agreed to it.

Oh stop being so childish! That is the worst excuse I have heard.

F*** off and read the original post. Oh, and learn to spell and punctuate. T***.

Now we're getting a real picture of the sort of person you must be. No wonder the company will not help you. Good on them for not giving in to what sounds like a trick to get something for nothing. How do we know you didn't deliberately damage the first item in order to get a cheap upgrade by complaining. It's a classic con trick a lot of people use.

Pay for what your ordered and stop your moaning and crying.

[Steve Dorman]

Toughened glass is particularly susceptible to edge damage as the toughening process sets up internal tensions that can cause minor defects to propagate through the whole sheet. It's not clear from your desription whether the glass was toughened, but it may explain why it cracked so easily when the initial impact was so small.

If the design was such that the edge was vulnerable (not protected by edging strips for example), it could be argued that the design was not fit for the task. However it's not straightforward.

[Andy Hall]

or even neither.

[Peter Parry]

They are made of toughened material, but that still leaves them vulnerable to edge impacts. The glass-ceramic surface is usually Ceran by Schott or Kera by Corning/Saint-Gobain. Both are very strong materials but the force of a glass edge striking them on edge is large and beyond what they can stand.

[Peter Parry]

It isn't glass but a glass-ceramic.

[steve robinson]

The op stated that the glass wasnt toughened and the impact caused it to crack not shatter

[Peter Parry]

It isn't glass but a glass-ceramic. It has a very low coefficient of expansion which makes it very tolerant of rapid temperature change. It is however a brittle material. Its a bit like cast iron - apply the stresses in the right place and it is very strong. Apply it in the wrong place and it can fail. This isn't an inherent fault - its simply a characteristic of the material.

[Peter Parry]

That's how a glass-ceramic will fail. It isn't toughened in the same way glass is so won't break into particles. It is still a toughened material.

[steve robinson]

It will still shatter as apposed to cracking though if its toughened

[Peter Parry]

No it won't. One way glass is toughened makes it break into small pieces when it fails. Not all toughened material fail in the same way and glass-ceramics will fail by cracking rather than shattering.

[steve robinson]

Peter i think the ops cooker was an induction unit they are cold to the touch , i know mine is

[steve robinson]

thats certianly not my experience i have seen several shatter over the years

[Peter Parry]

They have a hot pan on top of them. Although the glass-ceramic is about 80-90% transparent at infra red they still have to cope with hot pans and cold spills. Because the coefficient of expansion of glass-ceramic is very low you can take a red hot sheet and plunge it into ice water without any damage. That's why they are used. Their failure mode, of cracking rather than shattering, also makes them very safe - a pan of boiling water isn't going to cascade over you as the hob shatters.

[Peter Parry]

Glass-ceramic cannot shatter as toughened glass can. It has a wholly different and unstressed structure. It can break into pieces like normal soda glass but it cannot shatter like toughened glass.

[steve robinson]

[Joe Lee]

You *might* have a case against Champs, as they are the people with whom you have a Contract.

You have no case against Siemens.

Do you have a household contents Insurance Policy which provides cover for accidental damage to appliances ? you could consider claiming for the cost of replacement under that. although you may need to show the old hob & might have an excess on the Policy.

Have you done an online search to see whether that particular model of hob might be known to have a design or manufacturing fault - are other people complaining / talking about it ?

I would also be inclined to contact Siemens at their UK Head Office, make them aware of the problems & see whether they might wish to become involved & provide a remedy to ensure that you are satisfied with the quality & service you might expect when buying Siemens products.