British Gas Talking Rubbish? Gas Boiler

[405 TD Estate]

I had BG round the other day as I wanted to get an idea what is involved replacing my gas boiler.

My current boiler is 10-15 years old, wall mounted on a kitchen extension (ground floor) the flue runs through the celiing up the side of the house and vents above the roof lower gutter-line. This would be a good place for a condensing boiler as the steam is out the way. The boiler is mounted so approximately 1/2 of the back is on an external wall and 1/2 is on an internal wall (left to right).

living room ! outside ! !--------------------! ! boiler ! !--------------------!

View from above

What the BG man said was:

Boiler must be moved so it is fully on an external wall. All radiators must be replaced as they will be unable to handle the pressure System must be flushed and while BG quote for this many people do not and this greatly effects the life of the boiler. Shower mixer valve must be replaced. In 2009? British gas could no longer legally service my non-condensing boiler (forcing people to upgrade). =A35000 please - no proper brakedown of costs or paper quote was provided.

Did not give size of boiler needed for house (despite asking).

If I was to do all plumbing, replace radiators myself it was =A33000 (i.e. just to install boiler and comission it)

When asked why the boiler had to be moved he said the flue was too close to the external wall of the building - but this does not make sense to me - the vent is above the gutterline.

Comments - I suspect the boiler does not need to use and plenty of spec's have 15-22m high flues permitted, also some bends are allowed so it could be moved away from the wall anyway if required. (Unless i am missing something).

I think he was right about something though it is not economical to replace the boiler (in terms of gas savings) so should I use my old (and perfectly functionng) boiler as long as possible?

[News groups]

"405 TD Estate" wrote: ........ so should I use my old (and perfectly functionng) boiler as long as possible?

====================================

Probably (BG talking rubbish). Yes (keep old boiler).

[Jim Alexander]

Sounds like a rant about BG. You asked for an idea about what is involved and FOC they have provided some ideas, not a quote. I agree some of the BG "ideas" are debatable or misunderstood but if you don't like it move on and get some more quotes.

Perhaps he is proposing a simpler (cheaper?) flue option and you have misunderstood.

Guessing he's proposing replacing a storage system with a combi. Is that what you want?

dunno about that, hopefully others will clarify, but on your own figures could be 17 years old and maybe spares will not be available.

not a quote yet then, just ideas, maybe the quote is in the post.

Not that important at this stage. Practically, there are only a couple of sizes.

No, the existing terminal is above the gutterline. See earlier.

Only you can do the sums on that but after 10-15years life is a good time to do the sums.

Try either writing a detailed spec for the installer to quote against or keep an open mind.

Jim A

[Ian Stirling]

It is quite possible to flush your own radiators. Turn off the lockshield and TRV valves.

Remove radiator, using a wet+dry vac running constantly to extract the water as you undo the connections - or suitably shaped tins, and lots of swearing when the indellible black stain gets on carpet.

Take radiator outside, and run hosepipe through it back and forward, while shaking.

If you have a source of more flow than the hosepipe then use that.

Also, even in the absence of flushing, adding in inhibitor (fernox et al) if you haven't done it recently is a good idea.

Have you done: Gap sealing, to reduce drafts. topping up roof insulation to at least

6", lagging any pipes in unheated spaces, cavity wall insulation (if applicable).

These would all have a much, much faster payback than a new boiler.

It may also be worth noting that you can buy new non-combi boilers, for around a tenth of the BG price, including fitting to your existing system. (if you can find anyone willing).

This is also legal to do DIY, if you are competant. It is not especially hard, though it does involve the ability to read and understand instructions.

Some boilers also require special equipment - CO meters, other makers do

5 grand can go a hell of a long way towards insulating heavily even uncooperative properties. If you replaced the boiler only now with a more modern one, it might be marginally more efficient. If you spend the 500 now, and the balance on insulation, then you will dramatically reduce your heating bills in most cases.

[Ed Sirett]

Probably not necessary, I can think of several makes and models where this would not be needed. You may or may not choose to extend the new flue to the gutter height.

Unless the existing system has radiator(s) that have failed due to corrosion then this is gold plating best practice and is OTT.

Necessary while BG overcharge for this others allow for it in sensible quotes or at the lowest end of the market skimp it.

Are you going to/from a combi? Might just be an issue but there again might well not be.

News to me and I have _nothing_ about this in the /Gas Installer/ or other publications.

I wonder why.

See Boiler CHoice FAQ and use online calculator.

< Just how big is your house?

new flue with new rules a very big factor in the Boiler selection is flueing,it can make hundreds of quid variations.

See the BoilerChoice FAQ (dependending on what you have, what controls and how you use the existing he may or may not be right). At their prices you may well have some trouble justifying the expense!

[meow2222]

uhoh

and works perfectly. End of problem. Why replace it with a less reliable new one.

NT

[Edward W. Thompson]

Doesn't poor efficiency come into the equation?

[Andy Cap]

Possibly, but my long-in-the-tooth boiler has cost me 3 thermo-couples and a new cap at £80 in 20 years. That is the cost of a single service.

After fitting TVRs last year, I guess my gas bill will be just over £300. What efficiency savings would I have to make to cover the now clearly necessary annual service cost and breakdown cover for the inevitable breakdowns ?

We're being well ripped-off.

Andy

[Stuart B]

Alpha boilers have a 3 year guarantee and Ariston a 5 year one .so long as you get them serviced annually . Stuart .

[manatbandq]

When you _need_ a new boiler, yes, i.e., when the old one is broken. If the old one is still working then you have to offset the inefficiency of the old boiler against the environmental costs of manufacturing, transporting and fitting the new one, not to mention disposing of the old one.

MBQ

[405 TD Estate]

I Think I'm gonna get cavity wall insulation and modern loft insulation (to 10cm) first. Then hopefully my gas bill will be quite small so won't worry...

I would consider finding out if a new boiler could be installed in the current location (I think it can) and I've seen new condensing boilers on Ebay for =A33-400. If I could get one installed cheap (doing all plumbing, flushing etc myself I may consider it...