Bowing house wall - tie rods?

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Andy Hall wrote:

Hmmm...there's a thought...
--
Grunff


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Andy Hall wrote:

If he waits till I am feeling less impoerished, he can have my old westwood ride on. Needs a lot of tinkering as its had a hard life, but it will do about two acres a day.

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It doesn't take much for me to make a tit of myself. In this case it was a combination of your writing and my reading.
Where are you living? Germany? (......152899.news.uni-berlin.de) I think it unlikely that your house would have been built without foundations even in the financial straits of the time. I believe the building style would have been to find a rock base to put the house on and to incorporate a technique of some kind for limiting damp.

It is unusual for a 2 ft stone wall to have an internal and an external skin. 8 metres is not a gianormous edifice for a country house. Is it an old semi derelict cottage you are rebuilding? Or is it a town house you are struggling to hold together? Describe how the wall partitions have separated, please.

This crack showed 1mm extra bowing in an outwardly mobile direction?

This sounds suspiciously like the roof is pushing the house out.

If I were you I should check what supporting walls have been removed and whilst you are at it I would see how much the floor joists have got to go before they come out the wall at the worst part.

So what’s the problem? If you can afford it do it. If not, sell up.

I don’t know what I was thinking of in my previous posts. A '70's UK cavity wall semi, built on a concrete pad with failed wall ties – butterfly shaped wire connectors to tie the outer and inner leaves of a wall together every 3 or 4 courses. What you are hoping to do is pull the house together with steel jacks. I think it is impossible to rectify the damage; the metal is to help stop it getting worse.

What sort of inane questions do you suppose belong on a group called UK DIY? You have been told to seek professional help you retard, go and get it.
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Michael Mcneil wrote:

Devon.
Not much of a rock bed, but a shallow loose stone foundation.

And indeed it doesn't - just solid stone.

Yes - sort of.

Ok, the house has a square footprint. The only structural walls are the 4 outer walls. But intenally, it's divided up using block partition walls. The movement of the outer wall is evidenced by cracks where the interior partition wall (p) meets the outer walls.
In this diagram, the top wall (which represents the house's south facing external wall) is no longer very flat - it's slightly convex.
________________ |    p    | |    p    | |    p    | |ppppppppppppppp| |    p    | |    p    | ________p_______|

Yup.
You'd think that - but the greatest deflection of the outer wall is not at roof level - it's at first floor floor level.

No supporting walls have been removed. The joists have a good few inches yet.

I have no intention of selling up, and every intention of implementing a fix. I just wanted the group's experiences.

Exactly.
Eh??
--
Grunff



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Michael Mcneil wrote:

Devon.
Not much of a rock bed, but a shallow loose stone foundation.

And indeed it doesn't - just solid stone.

Yes - sort of.

Ok, the house has a square footprint. The only structural walls are the 4 outer walls. But intenally, it's divided up using block partition walls. The movement of the outer wall is evidenced by cracks where the interior partition wall (p) meets the outer walls.
In this diagram, the top wall (which represents the house's south facing external wall) is no longer very flat - it's slightly convex.
________________ |    p    | |    p    | |    p    | |ppppppppppppppp| |    p    | |    p    | ________p_______|

Yup.
You'd think that - but the greatest deflection of the outer wall is not at roof level - it's at first floor floor level.

No supporting walls have been removed. The joists have a good few inches yet.

I have no intention of selling up, and every intention of implementing a fix. I just wanted the group's experiences.

Exactly.
Eh??
--
Grunff


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Gnube wrote: <not a lot>
Grunff, if the wall is bowing out in the middle, then apart from simple settlement etc, its likely that the weight of the roof is downwards only. That is consistent with properly tied rafters and joists.
The Euler criteria for collapse has its first solution as the wall bowing centrally. This worries me enough to be glad you have an engineer on the case already.
If you are not familiar with dear old Euler, just get a playing card or similar, and place it on edge and press down on the top. Then bend it vertically and do the same. Euler did the math to show why in the first case it buckles, and in the second case it doesn't.
One of the few things I can remember form structural engineering lectures.
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Now we have settled that the roof is pushing the wall out and that it is not a cavity wall. And apparently he has got an engineer on the job, can we know why he hasn't been able to supply us with technical information?
Another question he might ask his expert is why floor joists are always laid parallel to the rafters. I rather think that if he'd spent more time attending his public library -or the one at his nearest Tech, than attending to this thread he'd get as much information and know the qualifications of the advisor.
--
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Michael Mcneil wrote:

Looks like a mistake on the server side.

what is your problem? apaqrt from uisng hotmail that is...

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On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 06:28:16 +0000 (UTC), "Michael Mcneil"

Is it necessary to be quite so rude??
.andy
To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
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wrote:

Not really, the pratt is still shepherding the thread like a dolt. If he is the same anal retentive that kept asking advice about electric saws some months back, then I consider my reply quite restrained -albeit unecessary as it will be not so much ignored as treated with abandon.
Nothing wrong with that perhaps. Be a shame to be stuck with him as a customer though.
The prick just wants to write to the group never mind what is said. If he wanted to know anything about such a specialised subject he would have got hold of some books on it by now.
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Michael Mcneil wrote:

What the hell are you on about f#<kwit?

Rich, very rich indeed!
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wrote:

I think someone failed their exam in social studies. I think I've found a candidate for my kill file. Yes !!! The they go. BYE BYE !!!!
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What are you on? Whatever, I'd adjust the dose.
--
*I used up all my sick days so I called in dead

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
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On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:50:28 +0000 (UTC), "Michael Mcneil"

Hmmm......
I notice though, Michael, that you do not contribute very often to the discussions in this NG which is probably fortunate as most of your contributions follow this style.
Part of the value of UK.D-I-Y is that people can feel comfortable in being able to raise issues and ask questions without the fear of being put down even if the points are obvious to others.
We can't be experts in all areas - generally we can contribute usefully in some but may need help in others. Therein lies the value.

I wouldn't worry too much about that, Michael. It's fairly unlikely that you would have or retain any customers for any length of time.

That might be true, although we have a whole range of people who are well qualified on contribute on a spectrum of topics including this one. It's entirely reasonable that somebody can give help in one area and need help in another. This represents a source of information that is as valuable as anything presented in a book.
In general, both newsgroup and literary sources are able to convey information without the need to introduce put downs and rudeness to emphasise a point.
One can only assume that since you find the need to do so, you have little of value to contribute.
.andy
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wrote:

Hear, hear. Well said. Wholly agree with everything you stated!
PoP
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Michael Mcneil wrote:

I am sure I speak for many in this group when I say that I greatly welcome the ongoing advice and input that has been provided by Grunff over the years. He has posted many consistently well though out and polite messages to this group, always ready to help without attempting puff his own ego at the expense of others - an ability that some people could do well to learn from.
You seem to have contributed little of value to this thread while demonstrating a lack of ability to grasp even basic concepts. Why for example do you find it so difficult to understand the value of eliciting the experiences of others, who may have experienced similar situations themselves, is something of great value that you cannot do from simply "reading a book" or asking a "professional"?
--
Cheers,

John.

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John Rumm wrote:

Don't feed the troll, unless you enjoy the mess.
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The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Couldn't decide if he was a troll or just plain obnoxious...
Either way you are probably right!
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Cheers,

John.

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I seem to remember making a comment about thinking before posting before thinking some time back. Nobody heeded it, of course. Way back when, one Mr. Marks suggested a period of some minutes sitting on one's hands before posting would be a grand idea. In the last year the signal to noise (which has become noise to signal) ratio has worsened to the extent that the newsgroup is in serious danger of becoming unusable. Unfortunately there are people on this newsgroup who, having nothing to say, say it. This, of course, dilutes any vestiges of credibility they may have, and the astute subscribers to the newsgroup already know that anyone who contributes more than half-a-dozen articles a day is a wittering idiot. Quality rather than quantity, please. Darryl Huff's "how to lie with statistics" is rather less than 150 pages long, but it is one of the best books I have ever read. It may be coming up to its 50th birthday, but by reading it you will learn more in a morning than you ever did in a year.
<steps off soapbox>
John Schmitt
-- If you have nothing to say, or rather, something extremely stupid and obvious, say it, but in a 'plonking' tone of voice - i.e. roundly, but hollowly and dogmatically. - Stephen Potter
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Michael Mcneil wrote:

I've said it before, and will probably say it again - Eh??
--
Grunff


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