Bottle trap seal unavailable

[Harry Bloomfield]

We have just had YW installing a water meter under the kitchen sink, just days after I agreed to have one last week. In anticipation of them wanting to fit it under the sink, I removed a shelf, which involved disturbing the bottle trap from our 1 and 1/2 sink. Despite several attempts, the bottom cap of the trap insisted on leaking and eventually the flat seal washer in the cap split - perished after 30+ years use. I tried two plumbing outlets for a replacement washer or a replacement trap, but they had neither a sealing washer not a double inlet trap which would fit. I tried to seal the caps threads with Jet Blue, that wouldn't work.

An O ring would have just pushed out the way, it had to be a thin flat sealing washer.

Then I got a light bulb moment and realised I had a circle cutter thingummy and plenty of old inner tubes, so I set it to cut the outer diameter, then the inner diameter. Its like an arm made of plastic, spike for the centre, tiny stanley type blade for the cutting and adjustable for radius/ diameter.

Bought it years ago and it worked a treat.

Now a question - the CW flow seems not as good as it was. Water comes in via plastic pipe, to the original multi-turn stop, to meter, then they used one of those 15mm chrome plated quarter turn isolation valves on the output with a screw slot. I was always of the opinion that these valves restricted the flow quite considerably and so it seems to do.

Our old stop valve works, but I would welcome something a bit quicker/ less difficult to turn off.

Is it worth fitting something better to improve the flow rate?

[T i m]

I think you need a 'full bore' ball valve with handle.

Cheers, T i m

[alan_m]

You can get full bore versions of those valves. If you look at the images at

and

you can see that the full bore version body is more bulky

You should be able to find a version of a full bore with a handle

When searching google try isolation valves gas (which are also suitable for water

[alan_m]

I should say my preference for something like this is for a branded product from a company with a reputation for being better such as Pegler, as sold under that brand by Screwfix albeit at a higher cost.

I've used cheaper generic products sold by Toolsatan/SF etc. and found that they weeped slightly when operated after 5 years for the first time in anger. The Pegler units fitted afterwards gave the impression that they are made better and are more substantial - only time will tell.

[T i m]

Good points.

The problem (for yer average d-i-yer) is knowing what constitutes a 'good / quality item' when prices (for the same stuff) can vary wildly across a range of suppliers.

This is especially the case 'these days' when 'cheap' (within a given field) doesn't necessarily mean bad and the 'branded' stuff is the same as the cheap stuff, just with a different name on it.

I've just bought a second hand 'Mariner' 2.5hp 4/ outboard motor and I'm not sure if the Mercury version would have been better or worse than that or the Tohatsu 2.5hp (who make all 3 in any case). ;-)

My mate sells / leases photocopiers and he finds it funny when listening to customers saying how they wouldn't have another 'Brand A' or 'Brand B' machine and him remembering not to fit either of those makes from the bag of brand stickers that come with each machine. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[dennis]

You can have a remote switch on the wall if you want to buy the add on kit.

[alan_m]

I agree that price often is not an indication of quality. For plumbing and where items may not be operated for many years (such a service valves) I tend to buy the Pegler brand. The recommendation came from a friend who is a plumber. It's what he fits in his own house but not necessarily in a customers premises where the bottom line may be cost. He does sometimes despair when asked to fit the customers chrome/gold micron thick plated piece of monkey metal purchased for mega bucks from a fashion outlet when the better quality item could have been purchased (by the customer) for a third of the price.

The innards all probably made by Brother :)

[alan_m]

Be careful with these. Unless the water is flowing in the pipe (or there is a large(ish) pressure differential between input and output) it doesn't switch off. I have the remote version of one of these for an easily accessible outside tap fitted at the front of the house To stop the water I first turn off the switch and then I have to fully open the tap. I then get a seconds worth of flow before the switch cuts in. If the tap is only opened slightly the switch doesn't kick in. As long as you are aware of this behaviour then its no problem.

[T i m]

I wonder how much effort he puts into 'selling' them the better product though (not that he must of course)?

I tend to try (at least) to use the same logic with them as I would for myself and why not? But you are right, *if* buying the 'better solution' costs a lot more and especially if there isn't any real / obvious justification, then it's often an uphill struggle (with *some people*). Till it all goes wrong of course, *then* they generally get it. ;-)

I've been helping a mate with stuff his builders did ('badly' with hindsight) where the issues were partly down to style over function. It's like putting up a 'bracket less' shelf when you know there isn't much to support it and that exposed uprights would be a better bet.

*I* wouldn't compromise function over form but as you say, many seem to (obsessively in some cases).

Well, one of 3 companies I understand but not as many as the number of stickers that come in the box might suggest. ;-)

We were trying to give someone a 'useful birthday present the other day and I thought a set of 'good' 'Mole grips' / 'Self locking pliers' might be the thing. So as it was supposed to be a present I asked my mate at the garage if the Snap-On man had something branded. It turns out they offer Irwin but a quick Google suggested there were 'USA Irwin' (that were still good) and 'other countries of origin' that were known to be of a lesser quality. But unless you buy one of each and use them equally, how will you ever know if you have been scammed or not?

Cheers, T i m