Bosun's chair access

[The Natural Philosopher]

belaying does not mean preventing a fall, any more than tying a knot means holding your shoes on.

A belay is simply a holding point. To belay means to make fast to (presumably a holding point).

That is their

The devices I found are merely 'shock absorbers'..some with inertia reel type devices so you can climb, but not fall through them.

I suppose they are called belaying devices because they attach to belays, but their function is nothing to do woy tyhe menaing of 'be;lay'

Any more than car wheels are what cars *do*.

Strictly, they are firmly attached to a static point. The fact that prevents them falling very far, is a side issue linguistically.

[Clive George]

Ok, not prevent a fall, prevent a fall from going too far.

Yes, and in mountaineering the time you want to make things fast is when they're falling off.

No, it's about holding the fall - holding the climber who would otherwise be falling.

[michael adams]

this

But you just stated above that " Belay is absolutely to hold securely in a fixed place"

But the a rope threaded through a carabiner is only "held securely" at one end in the first place, isn't it ? At the spike end . Its only threaded through the caribiner, not tied to it.

The speed with which it will thread through the caribiner is determined by the angle it leaves the caribiner which is controlled by the climber. For most designs the closer the angle of exit to the angle of entry the faster the rope will thread through. While at 90% it should come to a dead stop. That's the whole point of belay devices as opposed to simply tying a rope directly to the harness - which according to your definition is the only belay which actually meets your specifiation. They allow the climber to control the rope by the use of friction.

michael adams

...

[The Natural Philosopher]

Its not my fault if you don't understand what belay means and why its been used by rock climbers, and now it seems completely abused.

[GAP]

No quotes, as comments on several previous posts...

Climbing (and.or Mountaineering) is a discipline that like many others has taken words from other actrivities and redefined them to mean new things, which are understood by their practioners. Computing is probably the worst example of this!!

So, as a climber, "belay" is used in a few ways. As a noun, a belay is a solid anchor point, usally at the top of a climb that the climbing leader ties himself on to. The belay might be a number of devices placed in cracks in the rock, slings (loops of rope or textile tape) looped over rock spikes or previously placed "bolts" (another word redefined to mean devices like large rawlbolts, or resin anchors), etc., etc.

Belay is also used as a verb meaning to control the speed of a rope, usually because your partner is tied to the other end of it. This happens both when the leader is climbing, when they *are* simply tied into one end of the rope, but also when the "second" climbs.

From the second meaning is derived the name "belay device" which is used to describe a number of mechanical devices which are used to control the speed of a rope. Typically the belay device is attached to the climber's harness with a karabiner. Belay devices include automatic locking ones.

On the subject of rope, climbing shops often sell rope from the reel by the metre, so it is possible to obtain shorter lengths, however it's usually more economical to buy pre-cut lengths - they come in standard lengths, commonly from about 30 to 60 metres. Having said that, climbing rope is expensive, because it's designed to meet several demanding (and conflicting) roles: to be as light as possible, to be as strong as possible, to not absorb water, to be nice to handle, to resist abrasion, but most importantly to absorb impacts gradually when a climber falls off. The latter attribute is unlikely to be of importance in the OP's application, and hence makes climbing rope over specified for his use.

Graham (A climber :-) )

[fred]

A google for "abseil rope" or "static rope" will throw up a bundle. As with anything, cheaper if you buy by the stock length (50, 100 or 200m) but just spotted this one that will do it by the metre (£1.75/m):

happen to use climbing rope for this as I have it anyway but abseil rope is cheaper and suits the purpose better as it has minimal stretch. I wouldn't use anything that's not a certified climbing or abseil rope as the consequences of failure are too great and you want a kernmantle rope as anything else will fankle going through a belay device. Specifically avoid anything labelled as 'accessory cord'.

I have no knowledge of bosuns chairs so previously stayed out of the thread but in this sort of situation I use a sticht/stitch plate to control descent and wrap the dead end of the rope round my leg for a prolonged stop. Alternatively you could use a prusik or similar self locking knot to secure the dead side of the rope to a harness. You can use a figure 8 to control the descent but they require more force on the dead side to stop the descent so avoid unless you have one or can borrow. Do not rely on a prusik to control descent or to lock position on a live rope, this is not safe (although I believe that Fred Dibnah probably worked from such using a swing seat type roped chair).

Garden hose is the accepted protector for taking the rope over edges.

[Alan J. Wylie]

drum).

but in this sort of situation I use a sticht/stitch plate to control

For descenders, the standard choice amongst cavers is the Petzl Stop.

cheap, but it has a certain amount of fail-safe built in (provided you don't grip it tightly in a panic), it doesn't twist the rope and you can detach it from the rope without unclipping it from your harness and risking dropping it. A soft / hard lock is easy to do to hold yourself in position on the rope.

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember GAP saying something like:

It's no use. Nobody's going to listen to someone who knows what they're talking about. Too many self-appointed experts who've read a book about it.