[Borderline OT] Scrap Copper prices

[Andy Dingley]

What do you suggest he should have done Dennis? He was burgled by a team of three people, all with criminal records that included violence. One already had a conviction for burgling the same house. Another was only out on bail from another offence. The third interspersed his later busy criminal career with paid interviews from the BBC, and suing Tony Martin for "loss of earnings"! "Honour amongst thieves" in his mind meant taking a teenage apprentice along, then leaving him to die, being so fearful for his own skin that he didn't even tell the police his accomplice was lying wounded outside the house.

We're lucky that such fine fellows have you to defend them.

[Onetap]

He obtained an illegal firearm because he was in fear of his life and property and because those who he (and we) had paid to protect him, the police, the Gendarmes, the Men-of-Arms, had repeatedly failed him.

What would you do if you had been in Bleak House, Dennis? There were two options, sell up and move out or fight. And you cannot fight a mob of pikies single-handed with a 3 x 2.

But you're not in Bleak House and you are incapable of envisaging the besieged mentality of many people in rural communities when faced with the incessant onslaught of itinerant, violent criminals, stealing their vehicles, their tools, their fuel, their livelihoods. And you're not a builder/ plumber who has had his van regularly turned over.

As Mr.Blair (not Tony) is wrongly quoted as saying, "We sleep safely at night because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would harm us." There are no rough men ready to dispense violence on our behalf anymore. If you leave the dispensation of violence to untrained amateurs like Tony Martin, they're liable to get it wrong.

Che Guevara preferred a double-barrelled shotgun over the pump-action or self-loader because reloading is faster and a higher rate of fire can be sustained.

It isn't racist to hate thieves; thievist, perhaps. The Irish loathe them. I'm Irish.

[Onetap]

PS

[Mike]

His only crime was not shooting the lot of them and then burying the evidence somewhere where it couldn't be found.

As the saying goes, the only good pikey is a dead one.

[Onetap]

Oddly, almost the same comment was made to me by someone from that area, who also said Martin had a JCB. Wouldn't be the first time that's happened, he added.

Darren Bark and Brendan Fearon knew Fred Barras was unaccounted for but they both cleared off and left him. Martin, I think, didn't know if he'd hit anyone, but would have checked for casualties if he'd been competent. Barrass might have survived with competent first-aid (I don't know the details of his injuries) and medical attention but was left to die in the dark.

[geoff]

In message , tony sayer writes

They only allow him wax crayons in his "home"

[dennis]

Not true. He could not get a license for it, it was an unlicensable weapon. He was a criminal from the moment he had it, no better than other criminals.

[dennis]

Don't talk stupid, I might think you are TNP.

There were numerous things that could have been done at Bleak house that would probably have stopped the incident. For instance he could have fitted some lights rather than deliberately turning all the lights off so the passing crims would attempt a break in.

[Onetap]

Hide quoted text -

You have enjoyed a sheltered life, haven't you.

[Andy Dingley]

Maybe he should have got a few large dogs as well? Oh, he had.

They weren't "passing crims", they already knew the house and one of them had burgled it before. Tony Martin was known as the local paranoid reclusive farmer who had a history of being free with the use of a shotgun, and rarely left the house. They _still_ broke in.

[A.Lee]

No one is denying he is/was a criminal. It was not 'an unlicensable weapon'. Tony Martin did not have the relevant certificate, so could not keep a gun. The relevant gun could be held by anyone else with either a shotgun cert. or firearms cert. depending on what model the shotgun is.

Alan.

[dennis]

So lets get the right.. you don't know what model of shotgun he had but you state it was licensable.

[A.Lee]

Are you really stupid, or just putting on a show? Yes, any shotgun is licensable[1]. Certain shotguns need a Class 1 Firearms certificate, the vast majority need a Shotgun Certificate. Is that clear enough?

Alan.

[1] So long as it meets certain rules, such as having a length of over 24" etc.

[dennis]

So without knowing what model it is and how many shots it can fire before reloading you claim its licensable? I suppose you will also state that machine guns are licensable provided they meet certain rules (like not being a machine gun). We are talking about the UK here BTW.

[Onetap]

Errr, actually, yes. Section 5, Firearms Act I think but not having a FAC I'd have to check that. SMGs are, I'm uncertain about LMGs, GPMGs, and things of that ilk since I don't know of any private owners.

Probably best if you stopped digging mate..

[dennis]

Why? Once he is deep enough I will just point out that the court reports stated it was unlicensable not unlicensed.

[Onetap]

Report by a journalist, in the papers? Got to be right, then.

[Onetap]

It's on here Dennis, 3 up from the bottom, the bit about 'restricted' shotguns.

shotgun with a magazine capacity of more than 2 (+1 in the breech) is a section one firearm, not classified as a shotgun for licensing purposes.

[Andy Dingley]

Of course they're licensable: Cat 5.

Nor are Cat 5 licences quite as unobtainable as people claim. As an FAC (unlike a shotgun certificate) lists _specific_ firearms, it's not hard to get a Cat 5 licence in general, but your specific one will be restricted to only a specific firearm that you've shown good reason for.

The guy who breaks scrap aircraft from the RAF has a Cat 5 licence that covers him for the rare case of the odd 27mm cannon shell left rolling around. When the Plod have time-expired CS to get rid of it counts as hazardous chemical waste and so someone needs to have _both_ a Cat 5 and an ADR ticket. There are locksmiths who have Cat 5 licences to allow them to work legally with the teargas grenades in some old safes.

[A.Lee]

I rang my local dealer today with a view to weighing in the 100kg or so I have here - I'm not bothering yet, they are paying £1.20/kg, well under half the quoted price.

I knew they would pay less, as the prices quoted on the link above are bulk wholesale prices, but to be 60% down is rather too much for me.

Alan.