Boiler probs

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wrote:

all
glazing,
and
excellent
the
price
are
Improved
This is not a do upper.

All the structure is fine. No dry rot, woindow fit amnd are wet painted. It has running hot water, just put coal on the fire and you have hot water. It has a sound strucuture and woodwork, doors, etc, bathroom kitchen with a sink and built-in cupboards.
You said it! A house like that is not up people's expectations of comfort and running costs.

You what???? Do your calcs in a house with 300mm of loft insulation and with none whatsoever. Then there is the intangible comfort conditions. Well insulated house have less cold stops and are much more comfortable to live in, in winter and summer.

It is a major factor.
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More like facilities and appearance.

I was comparing the heat loss through walls with the loss through the roof in a typical house.
For a cavity wall with air gap only, the U value is in the 1.5 W/m^2.K area.
A pitched roof with no insulation has a U value in the 1.5 to 1.8 area.
Since the wall area is much larger than the roof area, the heat loss through the walls are also similarly greater.
It's interesting to add 100-200mm of insulation to the roof because the U value can be reduced to 0.35 to 0.15.
It is more interesting to insulate the walls.

It might be for you and maybe for me and one or two others but not a large seller of houses......

.andy
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wrote in message> >> Certainly people will expect to

comfort
No. the e.g. I gave was a 1930s spec', maybe with a recent rewire with white sockets. Everything totally liveable and in excellent decorative order with well cared for gardens. So the appearance would be excellent all around inside and out with excellent kerb appeal.

to
Lay in bed on a freezing night with no insulation in the loft. It gets cold super quickly, hence why they had hot water bottles. And most people know that.
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You didn;t say that at the outset and are just changing the rules as you go along. This makes the discussion rather pointless.

It doesn't alter the fact that most of the heatloss is demonstrably through the walls.

.andy
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wrote in message

white
with
I'm not changing the rules at all. I clearly said an excellent house, but in 1930s spec 100%. That does not mean ramshackle, as you thought.

cold
know
It doesn't alter the fact that comfort conditions the bedroom rise dramatically when you make the ceilings air tight and heavily insulate the loft. So much so that in most houses with double glazed low "e" glass or triple glazing no heating is required on the upper floors.
There is more surface area of walls in "most" house. In bungalows their is more ceiling area in most, so putting in 300mm of cellulous insulation is well worth it, making it air tight and dramatically reducing hear loss.
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You said that the bathroom and kitchen etc. were original. Everybody, apart from you would spend the money on replacing those first.

That's a separate topic entirely and doesn't detract from the fact that the heat loss is greater through the walls than the roof. In an earlier thread we already demonstrated that in the overall context of the house going for ridiculously large amounts of loft insulation is pointless.

That's what I said.

there's a surprise...

You put it in your ears??

.andy
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wrote:

but
Yes? That is not ramshackle. They could have replaced the old Belfast sink with another identical one 10 years ago, same with taps. They sold have replaced the elecrical sytem and still had one single socket in each room. Eveything as per original spec'.
I viewed one just like this the last time I was house hunting. A flahback in time. The owner bought it new. A one owner house.

Would they? Ask our estate agent man on the list. Have a look around at some house and see the state of the bathrooms.

the
It is not at all !!

Shocked eh!

Yes integrated ear muffs. I am now going to patent this idea. Off the patent office...where's me coat.
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Quite a number might think that you have it between your ears. :-)
Rod
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LOL. You are so funny. And a name like Rod too.
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writes

But adding just insulation, condensing boiler, double glazing, would not have the same impact as adding ordinary C/H, new bathroom, new kitchen, nice decorating and saving the original style windows.
House for house, the condensing boiler, insulation and windows would probably not even recover their cost.
--
Richard Faulkner

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excellent
the
price
are
Improved
That is not the point at all. It was: one house with poor comfort conditions and one with none at all.
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Well it would for me - all I need in a kitchen is a couple of power points, a sink and not much else. Is it just my suspicion that the ability of a purchaser to cook is inversely proportional to the (perceived) amount of money that they spend on a 'fitted kitchen'
--
Andrew

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Ah, so once again those with a little nous have to suffer for the average thicko?
Sigh.
--
"The road to Paradise is through Intercourse."
[email me at huge [at] huge [dot] org [dot] uk]
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On 11 Dec 2003 13:18:02 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@ukmisc.org.uk (Huge) wrote:

ALways the case, though, isn't it......? .andy
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writes:

thicko?
Well Andy, can't you stop being thick then? ;-)
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wrote:

estate
seen
that
Keynes,
a
That was in the 1980s.

one
price.
Most purchasers are not that stupid. In Nottinghamshire, a developer built low energy homes. He commands a higher price for them and they do go for more than the colder ones around, and certainly sell quicker.
Any decent estate agent will tell you that a house with low energy bills and eco credentials commands more and sell very quick. Public awareness is much greater now, after decades of headlines of environmental concerns, high and volatile fuel prices, etc.

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From what I have seen, it's still true today.

They sell to some people who have that as a concern on their agenda for either economic or idealistic reasons.
It is a long way down the list compared with factors like location, size, room layouts etc. for most people..
If energy saving, right or wrong were a big issue for most people, then older properites wouldn't sell, and they do.......
.andy
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wrote:

one
built
and
much
and
There are millions of these people now, and I would say they are in the majority.

A house has to suit the purpose: size, etc. Location is important: schools, shops, etc. Its no good have a family and living in a 100% eco house in the middle of nowhere. When all prime points are equal the eco house commands more attention and sells quicker and for more.

Because we don't build enough new houses in the UK. In 2000, we built twice as many homes as Southern Ireland (pop approx 3.3 million, while the UK is approx 60 million) Totally pathetic, and no wonder two jags castigated the building industry and took control and forced them into the 20th century (having them in the 21st century is too much to ask).
In areas where they are plentiful,new home the newer homes are more in demand because of the low fuels bills and more comfortable environment inside. I was reading that Milton Keynes is a prime example. MK has older house in it, surprise,surprise: Bletchley, Wolverton, etc. The newer homes in good locations are generally preferred to the 1920-30s homes in good locations.
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Millions possibly. Majority, I think not.

Not from my recent experience of the market.

Maybe that should happen to two jags himself.... (Oh, sorry, *castigated* ... :-) )

Milton Keynes isn't a prime example of anything that I would consider positive. It has great views, though. In the rear view mirror....

.andy
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wrote in message

schools,
the
commands
What might they be? How eco homes did you see and visit?

twice
is
the
Andy , you are so funny. All that Tory indoctrination coming out. I like Jonny Left Hook.

older
homes
It is. The population ismm,ixed from many parts of the country, although primarily south east.

I'm sure its forward looking inhabitants would love to see your exhaust puffs as you leave quickly.
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