Bodged eletrics job?

My dad recently got a so called registered electrician to add a light and socket to his shed. The socket is just for his radio, not for power tools or anything. The other day I took a look at this and was not happy at all. The electrician apparently had given my dad two options; an expensive option involving consumer units, rcds, amoured cable and a cheaper option. My dad went for the cheaper option.

The cheaper option consisted of taking a spur from the most convenient socket in the house, this spur first went to a 13amp FCU which he added adjacent to the house socket. The cable from the FCU went straight through the wall to the outside. The cable is then clipped directly to the wall and runs around the house to the outside of the shed. The cable used was standard 2.5mm T&E and is unprotected from the elements, about

10 meters of cable is exposed outside. The shed is attached to the house by the way. The cable then enters the shed straight through the wall and into the back of a standard plastic 13amp double socket. From the 13amp double socket there is a further spur to a 5amp FCU which feeds the light. I should have mentioned that the socket in the house where all this originates is only used for a table lamp.

A quick search on Google indicates that this is not even close to regulations. But how safe is it? What scenarios could cause problems with this type of installation? Should I be worried about my dad? Is there anything easy I can do to make it safer?

The electrician is having none of it, he said my dad went for the cheaper option and that is what he got.

Thanks,

Graham

Reply to
Graham Jones
Loading thread data ...

What is the protection at the consumer unit for the ring circuit that the spur feeding the shed, wire fuse, MCB, RCD etc.?

Reply to
:::Jerry::::

This is certainly not best practice. However. If he uses a plug-in RCD, if he's using tools plugged into that socket, outside, then it's probably not very unsafe at the moment. However, in some decades, probably more than one, the PVC cable will degrade to an extent where it is a hazard, both possibly to those touching it externally, and the possibility of causing shorts, due to UV degradation. Is it standard grey T+E? Painting it black (with the appropriate paint) would be a good band-aid. Does it get much sun?

Reply to
Ian Stirling

Wire fuse as it is an old style fuse box.

Also I forgot to mention that the cable outside runs at about waist height. Also it is more an outbuilding rather than a shed, made of brick, but my dad calls it his shed.

Reply to
Graham Jones

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 21:19:41 +0100,it is alleged that Graham Jones spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:

Admittedly 'cheaper' does tend to say don't use expensive parts, but in this case 2 things seem to be possible to do without too much effort/expense.(Much as I hate to advocate what many would see as a bodge on this group, in this case it can hardly get worse)

  1. Replace the fused spur off that table lamp socket with an RCD fused spur (which are now available in single gang, unlike a few years ago) This is going to be the largest expense, but, as I usually use for justification: "A heck of a lot cheaper and easier to obtain than a new life."
  2. Enclose the cable in conduit or minitrunking where exposed (on the house/shed) . TLC electrical do a brown coloured minitrunking that doesn't look *too* awful outside (and should be a little more stable in sunlight than the white, or indeed the bare cable) and is GPB2.50+VAT for a 3m length. Minitrunking wouldn't require you to pull back the entire length of the cable and thread it in.

Ensure the cable into the shed and into the house is running /down/ from the entrance holes, preventing water running in, a little silicone may not be a bad idea either at the entry points.

The inside installation in the shed sounds 'spartan but safe'.

HTH

Reply to
Chip

This used to be standard practice, its nothing disastrous. There are lots of installs like this still in use.

The pvc cable should be higher up so it doesnt get wacked and nicked, and preferably painted to avoid the small chance of long term uv degradation.

Sounds like he paid for a cheapo job and got one.

NT

Reply to
bigcat

There are two main issues:

  1. Must be on a 30mA RCD as the socket will almost certainly be used for portable equipment outdoors. The circuit may already be protected by one, which would be acceptable.

  1. The T&E cable is not suitable for outdoor use as it has no UV protection. Best to use SWA armoured, although there are other options, like running in conduit, Hi-Tuf etc. Much depends on whether the route chosen is vulnerable to mechanical damage, as some options will be OK for UV, but not provide such protection.

Christian.

Reply to
Christian McArdle

Has anyone even seen any T&E damaged by UV? I've seen plenty which has been outside exposed to the sun for decades, with no sign of any degredation whatsoever.

Just painting it is another option for UV protection. Oil-based gloss top coat bonds very well to PVC (don't use any undercoat).

Reply to
Andrew Gabriel

-- snip description of bad practice --

When was this work done?

Setting aside whether or not this is safe, since the shed is outside it comes under the 'special areas' category in Part P of the building regulations. Assuming that by registered you mean that the electrician is a member of the NICEIC approved contractor scheme then he should be able to self-certify and should have given your father a certificate to say that the work conformed to the regulations. If not then he should have notified the building control officer. He did do this didn't he?

Your father may have gone for the cheaper option but he still has a right to expect that the work would conform to the standard laid down in law. If you wanted to you could probably make a complaint to NICEIC or whoever the registering authority is or call in the local BCO.

Of course, Part P was intended to prevent amateurs like us doing this kind of work. We keep hearing how much safer electrical wiring will be when done by professionals. Now we know.

OK, I'll get of my soapbox now.

Andrew

Reply to
Andrew

Was there any way of running the cable through the walls between the shed (outbuilding) and the main house? It would have hidden the cable better.

Reply to
BigWallop

"It says it in the OSG so it must be true". A bit like the polystyrene issue really. I've just replaced a length of PVC T&E at my parents' house which has been pretty well exposed to the wind, rain and sun since before they moved in in 1972 (it probably wasn't a part of the original

1967 wiring, but very soon afterwards) and it was stiffer than new cable, but not by any means brittle, and the insulation didn't crack when I pulled it off the wall. If it hadn't needed replacing for other reasons, I'd have been happy to leave this 35(ish)-year-old cable in place for another few years.

Of course, 35 years is a shorter lifespan than the same PVC cable could have expected if it were run under the floorboards in the house (mice aside), but it's still very respectable.

Seen that done too. Actually, I've just been to a house where the outside has been spray-coated with something slightly rubbery, a bit like very thick masonry paint. It covered the PVC cable running outside the house very nicely.

Hwyl!

M.

Reply to
Martin Angove

But you can only make a complaint to an approved body such as the NICEIC if the electrician is a member. Otherwise building control will consider it to be the responsibility of the householder to ensure the work meets building control standards, as well as paying the standard building control fees. This may involve further payments for remedial work.

James

Reply to
James

Grey stuff I suspect will be ok, but I would have reservations about the white stuff apart from it looking naff, like white telephone extension cable strung around houses!!.

Dave

Reply to
dave stanton

On 01 Jul 2005 09:50:06 GMT,it is alleged that andrew@a17 (Andrew Gabriel) spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:

[snip]

Yes, I have seen it happen, when it does, which is rare, it's horrifyingly fast. Very likely only with the extreme el cheapo friday afternoon batches. The quality of T&E varies remarkably, even between batches from the same manufacturer. What seems to happen is once it degrades a little, which it does by 'crazing' on the surface, the degradation accelerates to a vast degree leaving the PVC as a chalky crumbly disaster covering bare wires.

OT: this seems to happen FAR more in the US with their "Romex" cable, which has a much thinner sheath and I believe it's not the same PVC as here, it seems closer to the PVC on cat5 cable, same texture etc. That stuff dang near degrades as you watch it, but it's specifically barred from use outdoors or exposed to sunlight by the electrical code there. Doesn't stop people doing it, you routinely see bare black and white wires that USED to be inside a PVC sheath, running down the sides of buildings :-(

[snip good advice re: painting to protect T&E]
Reply to
Chip

Guidance Note 1, Table F4, states uses for Twin and E to include "on exterior surface walls and the like" and comments "protection from direct sunlight may be necessary. Black sheath colour is better for cables in sunlight"

Reply to
Fred

Ultimately, as a grown up youre responsible for your life. If you pay someone to run T&E to the shed, you'll get T&E run to the shed.

NT

Reply to
bigcat

HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.