BG Central Heating breakdown care

Page 7 of 11  


Not practical.....

.andy
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Various people have written on the NHS. I think that what we all know is that if faced with a life threatening emergency, the system works, on the whole, extremely well. Where it falls down is in day to day organisation. Delays of 2-3 months for an ultrasound scan are common and unnecessary. The same service can be purchased via the private sector for the next day. Frequently from the same place. The problems are IMO largely being caused by political obsessions with waiting lists and reporting numbers. Traditionally, the local doctors surgery, saw any patient who appeared that day, that way the major problems came to light very quickly. Nowadays a wait of up to a week to see a doctor is not unknown, and to see a specialist quack takes months. My local hospital has a reported missed appointment rate of 1 in 6. If the numbers are true. I have my doubts.
Anyway for those advocates of private medicine, I can offer the following examples of not best practice. 1) A relative goes for a back examination. After examination, without authorisation, the specialist decides to inject 2 ampoules of steroids into the spine. The relative never works again. 2) A friend has a prostate operation done privately. After 10 years, he is still in pain and being treated by the NHS. 3) A relative in the USA booked a hospital and surgeon for a Caesarean operation on the 1st October last. She went for a check up the day before and there was no record of the operation or surgeon being booked! They of course had a computer! I must say however, that the hospital did run around like headless chickens the next day to enable the birth to take place on the planned day, albeit somewhat late.
I do know of other cases where the private sector has done a very good job, better than the NHS, but there is a lot of luck in the equation.
The present system in the private and public sectors of the UK,where it takes 5 visits to various doctors before any worthwhile testing is done is a recipe for inefficiency. We need much higher levels of capital investment in testing facilities rather than more people in the system.
Regards Capitol
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On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 22:33:40 -0000, "Capitol"

Throwing money at testing facilities, like anywhere else, isn't going to solve the problem.
It needs a structured management approach - where MPs don't get to waste everyone's time by requesting stupid measurement criteria to line their own political nest.
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Make that a couple of weeks round these parts!...
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Tony Sayer


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Well, GPs aren't actually part of the NHS - their main income may indeed come from them, but they are self employed. Nor, apart from in some rural areas, are you restricted to just the one - in most towns you'll have a choice. So this sorts of drive a horse and cart through the theory that it's the NHS 'monopoly' that causes waiting lists.
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"tony sayer" wrote | >Traditionally, the local doctors surgery, saw any patient who | >appeared that day, that way the major problems came to light | >very quickly. Nowadays a wait of up to a week to see a doctor | >is not unknown, | Make that a couple of weeks round these parts!...
Last time I had Something Sore I phoned the Dr in the morning, got an almost immediate telephone consultation, was asked to come into the surgery later that morning, and got an x-ray that afternoon.
Things do seem to have improved in that regard in the last few years; I can remember thinking that there was no point in waiting a week for an appt as by that time I'd be either better or deid.
What always puzzles me is why the receptionist asks "is it medically urgent?". How the f'ck am I supposed to know?
Owain
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"IMM" wrote | > >How things change. Maggie, Maggie, Maggie...you all know the rest. | > The real world rather than the cloud cuckoo land of state run | > industries. | When a system is nationwide and a monopoly it should be run by the people. | Private monopolies are a no, no. BG under public ownership was far better, | and far more customer focused.
Was it looloo. I can remember multiple visits from The Gas Board to repair a boiler, all of whom has the same thing to say: "it needs to be someone with a ladder". No matter how many gasfitters said that it took them ages and ages to get around to sending somebody with a ladder. Oh, the wonderful days of having to buy your cooker from a Government Department.
Consider that people in Scotland pay more for water from a public sector supplier than people in E&W from the private sector.
And I haven't forgotten the power workers strikes of the 1970s ... how customer focused was that.
And BG don't have a monopoly, even on retailing gas, any more. (And if you don't like Transco, there is always Calor.)
Owain
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Owain wrote:

Hence the multiple posting? ;-)
Chris
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"IMM" wrote | > >How things change. Maggie, Maggie, Maggie...you all know the rest. | > The real world rather than the cloud cuckoo land of state run | > industries. | When a system is nationwide and a monopoly it should be run by the people. | Private monopolies are a no, no. BG under public ownership was far better, | and far more customer focused.
Was it looloo. I can remember multiple visits from The Gas Board to repair a boiler, all of whom has the same thing to say: "it needs to be someone with a ladder". No matter how many gasfitters said that it took them ages and ages to get around to sending somebody with a ladder. Oh, the wonderful days of having to buy your cooker from a Government Department.
Consider that people in Scotland pay more for water from a public sector supplier than people in E&W from the private sector.
And I haven't forgotten the power workers strikes of the 1970s ... how customer focused was that.
And BG don't have a monopoly, even on retailing gas, any more. (And if you don't like Transco, there is always Calor.)
Owain
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This had nothing to do with service levels.

I didn't say it did. It did have and was not private.

One has bottles and the other not. very different. Yes have bottles in your 2nd floor flat running the CH and DHW. I think not. Transco is a private monopoly.
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I still work in an ex-state run industry, and have done since before very few people got very rich very quickly.
I haven`t seen a single change that improved customer service, or that couldn`t have been done while state owned.
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wrote:

There's nothing wrong with (legally) getting rich quickly. Generally this comes from being willing to take risks or from being in the right place at the right time.

But were they while it was state owned?
.andy
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Andy Hall wrote:

Depends on your morality.
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wrote:

Why?
This is part of the British disease that thinks that "it's not quite nice". I was careful to say "legally"; and I didn't suggest that it had to be by dirty dealing.
I personally know and have worked with people who have made sums in the millions in a few weeks as the result of stock options vesting through acquisitions. I know others who have risked their standing in the business world and much of their personal wealth and over a period of a few years grown their investment to hundreds of millions.
By the yardstick of somebody earning the national average salary, either would amount to more than they could hope to make in several lifetimes, so relatively, it would amount to "getting rich quick".
Do I think that it's immoral? Certainly not.
.andy
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Andy Hall wrote:

You'll notice the relevance of the part of Colin's post that I left unsnipped.
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wrote:

I can notice it, but if you mean that the number getting rich is an issue, I don't see a problem either, morally or in any other way as long as it was legal.
.andy
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You may have gleaned that people who have worked in these industries, and most importantly the customers, tend to agree that service was far better when state owned and the department was not geared to make as much as it can claw out of the customer.
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Not at all. I've gleaned that simply moving a publicly owned business into the private sector and not dealing with its culture doesn't work.
It isn't an issue of clawing as much out of the customer as possible, it; is of offering the required service at an acceptable price.
There are many private sector industries who are able to do this perfectly well, so the issue is the legacy, the culture and the history.
It's very easy for governments to throw billions in taxpayer's money into state run operations to prop them up. All that happens is that the abilities to run in a business-like way are never developed and the attitude that the customer is being afforded a privilege comes to the fore. The NHS is an obvious example of that. The current discussion about reform and funding is a complete nonsense - it's political tinkering. The only solution would be to create something completely new with a completely different basis of operation and shut the current thing down. Throwing aspirins at it is not the answer when major surgery is required.
The same should have been done with BG at the outset. A complete clear out of middle management and an instillation of a new culture.

.andy
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In the private sector, I have always found that people are not well trained with little or no backup in equipment or knowledge, unless it is a high tech commercial or industrial setup.
BG when public owned had well trained and qualified people.

There was nothing wrong with the service culture when public owned, nothing at all. They dealt with more service calls per year than any other organisation by 1000 miles. They required computerised service/customer systems, which only becoming available just as they were being privatised. All the so called better private management culture in the past 20 years has done nothing but reverse service levels. believe it or not, they tended to know how to service their appliances and systems.
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Then it's very simple. The rules of the market will apply and those not offering the service that the customer demands will go out of business. I have seen poor private sector service organisations and excellent ones in the same industries. It is perfectly possible to provide what the customer requires.

That's very nice, but the issue is whether the customer was getting the required level of service. To that, in my mind the answer was a resounding no when they took it upon themselves, and still do to prioritise customers according to their perception of the customer's need. That is unnacceptable. A service contract is a service contract. People should be in a position to pay for the level of service they require and get it. End of story. The notion that BG has of sending fitters to customers who they perceive to be more deserving cases based on whether they are an old lady or someone with a small child is a nonsense. The service response time should be clearly stated in the agreement and achieved, with compensation if it is not. If BG want to offer a higher level of service to the vulnerable at an attractive price, that's fine, but it should be done with incremental staffing, not by making other customers wait.

been broken up into much smaller organisations, or completely dismantled and reconstructed.
The poor service arises from the cultural legacy of not being able to operate in the commercial world. Other industries manage it perfectly well and do not require public ownership to achieve it.

.andy
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