BG Central Heating breakdown care

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On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:36:57 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman

That's not what I was saying.
As things stand, employed and self employed individuals and employers pay huge sums into the state system.
I don't feel that the state system provides healthcare in a timely way and to obtain certain kinds of care and facilities involves a very long wait if it's available at all. In several instances over the last few years where I have required consultations, the lead time would have been lengthy and no flexibility on appointment dates and times was possible. The budgets and treatment are allocated based on criteria that are opaque to the patient, but a little research on the internet with respect to NHS policies reveals that treatment is allocated and not available to everybody.
So my company choosed to contribute to a private health care scheme in order that I can obtain treatment at a time that is convenient earlier than the state can provide. I pay for that at a rate determined by age, medical history and various other parameters. In addition I have to pay higher rate tax, NI contributions and my company also has to pay NI contributions on the premiums.
In effect, I get zero from the state in terms of health care, yet I pay tax and further contributions to the state healthcare system for providing my own, even though I have lessened the load on the state system. Clearly this is a nonsense.
I have no problem with contributing to the healthcare of others, but would much prefer to see it provisioned in a less wasteful way. I would also like to have something back from the state by way of vouchers to "spend" on healthcare and am quite happy if that is on a flat basis available to all equitably. I'm not even arguing that I should get more vouchers or more expensive ones because I have put more money into the system - everybody gets the same.
The difference is that I would like to be able to use those vouchers at an NHS hospital if I am happy with the service I can get there, or if I choose to add a top up from private insurance, or even simply to pay and have treatment at a private hospital, then I should be able to do that.
The less well off still have the state safety net and those who want to spend their income on healthcare over and above what the state provides can elect to do so, thus further unburdening the demand on the state system.

The point is that there should be an element of choice and I should be able to add to what the state provides if I want to do so, not forced into paying more than twice.
.andy
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wrote:

be
You were.
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I know precisely what I was saying, thanks.

.andy
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Isn`t this where the thread first started - how privatisation lead to the profitable bits being sold off at a premium, non-profitable bits being ignored, and the overall effect being to the detriment to the customer ?
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wrote:

Not really.
The issue with BG is essentially that it remains staffed with people and a culture with a public sector service mentality and all of its worst aspects. There is an enormous difference between taking something in the public sector and privatising it and with an organisation that has always operated in the private sector. BG is broken because of the former.
The NHS is broken because of the fundamental outdated notion that healthcare should be "free" at the point of delivery. Of course it is far from free, with huge sums of money going into it, a massive bureaucracy and inefficiency throughout. This must be especially frustrating fro the dedicated, skilled and underpaid clinical staff who can't get the resources that they need because it is being wasted on administration of this huge monster.
With BG, I can fortunately shop elsewhere. With the NHS, I pay huge sums into it and so does my employer. In order to get the service required, my employer has to pay for private health cover. That is then taxed at highest marginal rate and additional NI contributions levied on top of that, even though, in effect, I am not using the NHS services. I don't have an issue with the clinical abilities of NHS medical staff, but I have a big issue with paying vast sums of money into something that is not delivering the goods and is making prioritising decisions on my medical treatment outside my control. This is unacceptable.
All that I have suggested is that individuals should receive healthcare vouchers which they can "spend" at face value at an NHS facility if they are happy with the service it provides and that those who wish to shop elsewhere through private insurance or simply payment can do so by taking their vouchers and topping them up.. Ultimately, I think that the NHS should be dismantled and replaced with a far simpler and more efficient system, but this would do for a start.
.andy
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Andy,
that's way too good an idea for the morons who run the country to realise. When U get into power then please extend that to education as well:-)))
--
Tony Sayer


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wrote:

That would be the other very obvious target,.
.andy
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wrote:

< snip tripe >
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No organisation can be perfect, and the larger it is the more complaints there will be. What is more important is the percentages.
I've only personally needed hospital attention once - a dodgy back treated by physiotherapy at St George's in Tooting and I've nothing but praise. Never once had to wait more than a couple of minutes later than the appointment time over a series of a dozen or so visits. Had the same chap on every visit who was polite, friendly and informative - as well as just downright good at his job. A++
My mother developed dementia suddenly late in life and was well cared for in a NHS geriatric nursing home - for free, and for many years.
My sister-in-law's sister had MS and again was well cared for by the NHS.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
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On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:16:34 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman

Not to the individual.

I'm not particularly criticising the medical staff, more the notion of a megalithically run national system with huge waste and a lack of choice for the individual. It should be possible for the individual to be able to use private healthcare if they wish to supplement their state provision. At present one pays twice for that.

That's good. I've not long ago seen a relative in a similar situation in what can only be described as absolutely awful conditions with inadequate budget and facilities.

.andy
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To that individual anything that goes wrong is one too many faults. But if you have figures to say that private care is actually better in percentage terms it would be nice to have them. There is plenty of evidence of private hospitals making a bodge of treatment. And private nursing homes treating their residents badly.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
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writes

Was that laying on of hands or just a standard miracle?
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geoff

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I liked the laying of hands.
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So did Onan apparently, but it got him into trouble.

.andy
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wrote:

I share your thoughts on many things to do with the NHS.
However to be fair, my son had a skateboard accident nearly two years ago and broke his femur (that's the large bone between knee and pelvis for those who aren't sure.
Paramedics arrived very promptly. He was rushed under twos and blues to Reading accident admissions - they bypassed the usual wait for four hours (plus) in the waiting room and he went straight into the casualty room - reason being that if you smash your femur there's a chance that you will puncture the major artery that runs down your leg, ending up with possible death. The staff there were excellent and quite outstanding.
The consultant who looked after my son for the next 3 months in traction was absolutely brilliant too. Really good bedside manner to put my son at ease. Although he only came round once a week it was an occasion to look forward to each week because he was great at answering questions - of which I had many over the weeks.
Most of the nurses were top rate too. One or two maybe needed to improve their social skills, but I can't say I had a complaint about the quality of nursing care.
Now for the downside......
My son was put into the maternity ward at Reading hospital for the 3 months he was there. They didn't have beds anywhere else. There were 4 fracture beds in that corner of the maternity ward due to this problem. Basically I considered this to be a complete pain in the arse because in the middle of the night babies would cry out and need to be taken care of.
Things have probably improved now because of the new wing they were building 2 years ago. But regardless of that, the location of Reading hospital is the pits if you live outside of Reading - the traffic system is 3rd world and if an ambulance hits the rush hour it must cost lives in lost time.
That hospital should be relocated to somewhere with better access, maybe at the Winnersh A329M junction, or the M4/A33 junction. Burying it in the town centre may have been okay when it was originally opened, but it isn't okay now. Even the train station is a fair old walk away.
PoP
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I completely agree and was careful not to criticise the medical staff, who are generally underpaid, not appreciated and have to work in poor conditions.
Then I look at the huge sums of money going in at the other end and wonder where it is all going.

Exactly. It is a nonsense having the hospital close to the centre of the town, surrounded by a one way system and mainly narrow roads. The comings and goings are a PITA for local residents. The other one at the other end of Reading is even worse for access. As you say, building on the landfill near M4 J11 would make far more sense.

.andy
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You can't win with hospital positioning. Remember many who attend as outpatients and visitors will be elderly, and want it to be close to the centre with good public transport links. The average younger person would prefer an outer town 'supermarket' type site with easy parking and road access.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
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On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:05:38 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman

The area that I am thinking of has good road connections to the town centre and an improved bus service would be simple to provision.
.andy
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wrote:

This might help just a little:
http://www.nursing-pay.com /
Notice Justin Jewitt at the top. He was (maybe still is?) paid more than the Health Minister in the Labour Government. Indeed, if memory serves me right, he was paid more than the Prime Minister!
Obviously with Milburns name just below the quality of this information is a bit out of date, but it tells you that under Labour they have no problem with paying managers from tax budgets.
PoP
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Maybe they should build better roads to it.
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