Beeswax ?

[Appelation Controlee]

Not so fast, Mr Bond ...

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember Appelation Controlee saying something like:

Yep, it's a problem. What we need is an across-the-board virulent disease to thin the herd, by about 90%.

[The Medway Handyman]

Only just spotted this post. I have never said that active smoking isn't a cause of lung cancer, plenty of sound scientific evidence to support that claim. However, the 'evidence' concerning passive smoking is utter bollox.

[Alan]

In message , The Medway Handyman wrote

Yep, the evidence given out by the tobacco companies about passive smoking is complete bollox. Go back a generation and they were telling everyone that low tar cigarettes were also safe.

[The Medway Handyman]

The tobacco companies haven't published anything about the alleged dangers of passive smoking.

If you want to think about bias, consider the position of the much more powerful and influential multi national pharmaceutical companies who produce 'give up smoking' products.

In the past 20 years there have been very few new 'wonder drugs' they can make huge profits from, other than AIDS and Statins.

Consider the marketing power of those companies. Statins for example, the average manufacturers marketing budget is $1 us billion, more than three times the development costs. Nicotine patches etc are easier to develop and therefore have higher margins & bigger marketing budgets.

The evidence against active smoking is clear and concise. The current hysteria about passive smoking is biased by funding from the pharmaceutical industry, who only promote data that supports their cause and their huge profits.

Try getting funding for a fair & neutral study on the effects of passive smoking - it doesn't exist.

[dennis]

If they could prove the data is wrong do you think they would have remained silent? They have a lot of money at stake to prove smoking is safer and they can't. I take that to mean that the claims about passive smoking being dangerous is true. You may not agree but as stated you aren't the brightest handyman about.

[Huge]

[Huge]

None so blind, etc.

"Overall the authors concluded that the evidence (epidemiological, dosimetric and toxicological) leads to the conclusion that breathing other people's tobacco smoke causes lung cancer in non-smokers. After adjustment for biases and confounding, the estimated excess risk is 26% (95% confidence interval 7-47%) which equates to several hundred deaths per year in Britain."

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[The Medway Handyman]

They no longer have the same spend as the pharmacutical giants. Look it up.

Then you accept bad science.

Sorry Dennis, personal insults don't support your rabid hysterical claims.

[The Medway Handyman]

Where did you copy & paste that lot from? Sorry, Gogle may be good, but you have to read the results & understand them.

Just a few to mention. (4) This WHO study was withdrawn after it was found the results had been deliberately biased. (5) is unpublished & therefore bollox. (7) & (8) are completely irrelevant to the passisive smoking debate. (9) Sir Richard Doll is on public record as saying the risks of passive smoking are irrelevant. (10 - 39) are also completely & utterly irrelevant to any debate about passive smoking.

As are the majority of the others that you have clearly never read. Go on, admit it, you have never read a single one of the studies have you?

Typical rabid anti smoker, you will grab at any straw to suport your claims.

I can't be arsed to even look at the rest of the s**te you have Googled to support your claim. I could find you 30+ studies, all credible & published in scientific journals subject to critical peer review that show the opposite - that non smoking partners of active smokers are less likely to develop cancer, heart disease, diabeties & ingrowing toenails.

So lets avoid a pissing contest. Lets cut to the chase.

Black Swan time.

Show me one single solitary death certificate anywhere in the world that shows passive smoking as the cause of death. Just one and you have found the Black Swan and my argument is dead in the water. Burden of proof is on you.

[dennis]

However the facts do, however you don't understand the facts and try to justify your misguided beliefs by accusing people that do understand the facts as being rabid and hysterical. It just adds to the evidence that you are stupid.

[dennis]

I think you are just a rabid drug addict who will lie about anything to justify your harm to others. You are typical of people with chemical abuse problems and will stop at nothing to get your fix.

The sooner it becomes illegal to smoke anywhere other people are the better.

[The Medway Handyman]

Sorry Dennis, personal insults still don't support your rabid hysterical claims.

[The Medway Handyman]

Sorry Dennipoo's, you lost me on that one, repeat it in English. Is this the fluffy bunny argument again?

Ah! At last you are getting the idea! Well done! Your concentration level would of course be higher if you smoked.

One day, if you think hard enough, you will get the full picture. Active smoking is proven to be dangerous to the active smoker, passive smoking isn't dangerous to anyone.

Oh do tell Dennipoo's, what evidence would that be?

Speaking of evidence, a while ago you made the outrageous claim that smokers incurred additional costs to the tax payer that the NHS didn't include in their (grossly exagerated) figures. Something to do with aftercare.

I asked you about 5 times to provide the figures and every time you evaded the question. I suspect because you made it up. A familiar technique with hysterical anti smokers.

-- Dave - The Medway Handyman

[The Medway Handyman]

Especially the anti smoking hysterics.

[dennis]

There you go again.. still lying to avoid feeling guilty about the harm you inflict on others.

[Huge]

Aww, how sweet, the unqualified junkie thinks he "understands".

[Huge]

This is, of course, a lie posted by a deluded junkie, determined to pollute the environment with the carcinogenic byproducts of his foul addiction.

[Andy Champ]

I'm quite happy for him to pay all those taxes, then drop dead before claiming his pension.

Andy

[The Medway Handyman]

And this is, of course, a lie posted by a deluded anti smoker, determined to persecute a minority without any evidence whatsoever.