Bal tile adhesives

[Graham Jones]

Hello,

I have a shower cubicle to tile, the tiles are 600mm x 300mm ceramics. I was going to buy a tub of Bal adhesive but looking at the product data sheets it seems the ready mixed adhesives are only suitable for tiles up to 300mm x 300mm.

Anyone know why this is? What would happen if I used these ready mixed adhesives anyway? But what would be suitable for 600mm x 300mm tiles?

Also I will be tiling onto brand new (very shiny!) plaster. What do I need to do here first?

Another thing, we are only tiling the shower area, so do I tile up to the edge of the tray and then install the screen or install the screen and tile up to it?

Sorry for all the questions, thanks,

Graham

[Simon Wilson]

My guess is the strength of the adhesive is not so high and there's a danger of the tile falling off due to the additional weight. I don't think there is any such restriction on the dry powder stuff (or at least I hope not, I have just tiled a bathroom using the flexible dry BAL stuff.

Depends how paranoid you are about water permeating through the grout. If you are worried about that then you can paint something like Mapegum WPS on first.

Pass

[John Rumm]

Well at a guess, I would expect a ready mixed product to be based on an acrylic formulation of some sort. These cure by virtue of "drying out". Hence a large tile on an impermeable backing would mean that the glue toward the centre of the tile may never be afforded the opportunity to dry properly, resulting in only a partial bond.

Dry mix adhesives may well be cement based, and hence cure by a chemical reaction, even in the presence of water, hence not causing the problem.

Either way I would only expect this to be a problem on an completely impermeable substrate.

Generally nothing. In wet service areas, the glue's instructions often suggest skimming the surface of the wall to about 3mm depth, and then ribbing the glue on top - thus creating a waterproof layer behind the tiles. You will need to see what it says on the instructions for the product you buy.

The important bit is tray first, then tiles, but it does not matter as much which order you do the screen and tiles in. Personally I normally tile before fitting the screen (makes tiling easier for starters - not having to work around the screen). The only downside on tiling first when only doing the cubical, is that you may get to see the edge of the tiles between the screen and the wall.

[Tim Watts]

Which BAL were you thinking of (there's Greestar, Bluestar and others)?

[Graham Jones]

Greenstar / Bluestar / Whitestar all say 300mm x 300mm maximum tile size. Going to go for a bag of Goldstar instead.

Graham

[Graham Jones]

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Thanks for the reply John,

I was going to tank it first with Bal tanking system, but this looks very expensive, especially as the shower area is about 20sqm. So are you saying that I could just use adhesive instead? As long as there is continous adhesive behind the tiles then this will be enough to tank?

Thanks,

Graham

[TheOldFellow]

I tiled a bathroom including a large shower with 300x600 using BAL Whitestar. The substrate was Marmox board. I used the adhesive as it was recommended by the tile shop for just that situation. I have had no problems at all - 2 years so far. There are even some tiles hung from the ceiling with it (complicated story, don't ask, it looks fine).

I'm guessing it's just a problem with impervious substrates.

R.

[John Rumm]

That was the instruction that came with mine - I think that was Nicobond rather than BAL though.

(it was a belt and braces approach since I also rendered with a waterproofed mortar in the shower space before tiling)

[Tim Watts]

Could acheive tanking with the thinnest grade marmox either glued or screwed to the wall (lots of stainless screws - they have an application sheet for this), then tile direct to that. It's 100% water and nearly 100% vapour proof - they sell a jointing tape and liquid to deal with the joints.

If you can lose about 1cm of depth on each wall it would give te advantage of adding a little insulation to avoid cold tiles.

I wonder if it would be cheaper than the tanking kit?

[John Rumm]

Might help a bit I suppose. Then again the shower was backing onto 100mm of PIR foam anyway in this case. I used WBP ply in place of the plasterboard for the two walls of the shower, and rendered them since that was what was to hand.

Don't know. Don't think I had even heard of Marmox when I did that shower.

Using Aqua panel would be another option - probably the one I would go for if in the same situation again (i.e. shower against a stud wall) since it can drop in in place of the PB and be tiled directly.

[Rick Hughes]

As long as there is continous adhesive behind the tiles then this will be enough to tank? Nope ....

Many bathroom install fail due to grout, the grout line cracks at some point in future, may even be a hairline crack where it joins tile .... water starts soaking in and then runs by capillary action behind tiles ....

In my new build I decided I did not was this issue again and used Respatex in the shower areas.