Asbestos mask?

[Dave Rove]

I want to remove the stippling effect on my 1970s ceilings. I've looked closely at it and it appears to be a whitish matt paint, applied thinly (apart from the spikes of the stippling) onto flat ceiling paper pasted to plasterboard. However, a web search on removing stippling turns up the warning that old stippling might contain asbestos. I don't want to take any chances, so I'll get myself a mask.

I find that disposable masks are difficult to breathe through and never quite fit flush all the way around the edges, so I want a better mask than that.

An initial search on good asbestos masks that are not too expensive for the home user turns up recommendations for the 3M 6200 with 3M 2091 filters, which can be bought from Amazon for £29:

But replacement filters seem remarkable expensive at £18 per pair (the mask takes 2 filters) imported from America:

The filters seem readily available at about £4 from Chinese vendors, but they seem an obvious thing to try to fake, so I've no idea how safe those would be.

Any suggestions, please?

[dennis]

If you are worried about asbestos then just remember that the fibres will linger for ages and you will need to vac everywhere with a good vac to stop others breathing in the fibres even if you wear a mask. Its this that makes asbestos removal expensive, the individual protection is cheap. Just get it plastered over and forget about it.

[Brian Gaff]

As others have said. if it is Asbestos it will linger for possibly months. I'd suggest its not asbestos, as some very old textured paint used in my bathroom back in the 80s has in fact got Pearlite in it to give the textured effect. Not sure what this actually is, it looks like sort of crunched up pummice. Brian

[Dave Rove]

I appreciate the warning, but it does damage the value of the house, even more so if it actually does contain asbestos, so I would like to remove it.

I'm prepared to seal each room that I work in, remove the carpet, and cover the floor in plastic sheeting. I'll also apply a spray of hot water from a garden sprayer to the paint, and leave it a few minutes before trying to scrape it off. Then fully vacuum that room after cleaning up. I'd hope that's adequate, unless somebody here says that's still not good enough.

I've scraped off a small sample, and looked at it in the sunlight and there _is_ something glinting in it. It it possible to distinguish Pearlite from asbestos?

[harryagain]

The stuff you are on about is called "Artex". It was used to cover up defetcive plaster etc, there were lots of different patterns/finishes. Pre the 90s it was bonded with asbestos.

[harryagain]

Asbestos is detected by examining a sample under microscope using polarised light. You can't legally remove artex as an individual, it has to be done by trained personnel with lots of equipment. There is howevera product specially made to cover it up.

[Peter Crosland]

Skim the surface with a thin layer of plaster to get a flat surface.

[Brian Gaff]

Do we know the years when asbestos was used in such products and when it was not. If he knows roughly when it was put on, then it might be safe to remove other types in a normal way. I think its probably not as dangerous as the lagging stuff, as that has fibres and these cause more problems.

I guess its because asbestos does not break down that it can irritate the inside of the lungs so badly. Many other things we breathe in get broken down. Brian

[Martin Brown]

Yes. Basically you need a modest 100x microscope with crossed polarisers and look for the spiky fibres. I have previously identified blue asbestos this way which was somewhat scary.

Perlite looks like white rice crispies and although not as bad its silica dust causes silicosis and isn't something you want to breath.

EPA-600 is one way to do it. Depends on the kit you have to hand.

In reality the generic asbestos threat is somewhat overhyped but the threat level from blue asbestos is extremely serious, brown asbestos serious and white asbestos less so but no longer considered acceptable.

The big problem is that industrial grade asbestos isn't ever pure.

Be careful or you could end up as dead as a Malcolm McClaren in a decade or two. The effects of asbestos are insidious and long term.

You will also want full coveralls and to read up on how to maintain a clean and dirty side of operations if you are going to DIY. I'd probably consider DIY myself for nearly pure white asbestos. Blue or brown I would get experts in even though I could probably do it safely. I have a feeling you are supposed to always get the experts in...

The waste will obviously have to be disposed of properly double bagged as asbestos waste. Some council tips will accept it.

Unless you are the sort of person that can work with hitack adhesives and never get a speck on you or handle powerful dyes and stay clean then you shouldn't even be comtemplating DIY asbestos removal.

As someone else has already pointed out putting a tough barrier coat over it and leaving it in situ is probably the safest way to proceed.

Regards, Martin Brown

[Dave Rove]

I'll leave it alone until I can establish what it is then.

OK. That's going to be expensive for the whole house and I'll have to develop some plastering skills to make it look smooth. But I guess that's what I'll have to do if it does turn out to be asbestos.

[Andy Burns]

Dathat's

Board over it, then either tape and fill the joints, skim it, or use a lining/ceiling paper to taste.

[Mr Pounder]

Is what I would do.

>

[Tim Watts]

+1

Come the day the ceiling has to come down for some reason, it will be such an evil dusty job that you'd empty the room and seal the doors.

Until then, bury any suspect material...

[Dave Rove]

It's the physical shape of the fibre, apparently. The lungs have microscopic projections called cillia that shift dust up the airway. But if it's a long and thin rigid fibre, then it's known as "asbestiform", and can get stuck in the lungs and cause localised scarring. Some types of carbon fibre can also be asbestiform, for example.

I don't know if this stuff on my ceilings actually is Artex. I've just looked at some Youtube videos about Artex removal, and it seems that it's typically applied quite thickly, maybe a quarter of an inch, and comes off quite readily if soaked. The stuff on my ceiling is as thin as a paint layer except for the stipples, and seems about as tough as matt paint, although water does soften it a bit.

Tomorrow, I'll remove a light fitting and remove a scrap of the ceiling paper to examine it closer.

[Dave Rove]

What type of board? Would I nail it up and hope that it doesn't dislodge too much dust?

[newshound]

Agreed.

Do you have a reference (to the "legally" point).

[newshound]

To (part) answer my own question

although it is not completely clear to me whether removing artex in your own premises without using any contractors might, actually, be exempt.

[Andy Burns]

9.5mm taper edge usually, it's thinner/lighter and the self-adhesive scrim tape used with ready mixed joint filler and a wide 'knife' make it pretty easy to get a finish that's ready for a fine sanding and painting.

[Dave Rove]

Hmm. I do wonder if the weight of two layers of plasterboard on the ceiling might be an issue.

[Andy Burns]

Highly unlikely to make any difference, unless you're breeding elephants upstairs ...