Are these car brakes worn?

[Andy Burns]

Did you pay the VAT, or fleece the taxpayers?

[The Natural Philosopher]

Me too. And judging by te corrosion, I wouldn't think the calipers were in a good state either. Probably took hours to unstick the buggers.

When I used to do this sort of stiff as almost a living, we eventually found that the best thing to do was take the lot off, skim the discs, strip the callipers and redo seals or replace as necessary, stick new pads in and bleed them to eternity, that way the customer got good brakes. that we could guarantee.

I've seen vile scams perpetrated on anyone who looks stupid enough to accept them. Been done to me several times. I keep going back to Marshall's, because by and large although they are not cheap, I have found them scrupulous and workmanlike. And if its not right after, they WILL fix it FOC.

But, old cars cost more to fix.They are bastards to get apart. I once lived over a rally garage. Speed of maintenance is everything in rallying. No nut wasn't locked, and no bolt was ever used twice. I used to help myself to the scrap bin of second hand used bolts, with their blessing.

BUT they knew that every single component could be removed precisily ina guaranteed time. Because every nit was tightened with a torque wrench to its proper setting, and the cars never had time to rust..the chief mechanic got a 'mechanic of the rally' award for changing a Ford Escort clutch in 17 miunutes lying upside down in the rain somewhere in Wales..I would say 7-10 minutes for brake pads would be on the cards.

I've removed whole wheel hubs to get pads out on older cars.

[Phil L]

The pictures are too dark too see anything, the pads just look like black shapes and no detail is visible, although on the second one you posted, it looks like the edges of the abrasive part are 'rounded'.

85 quid's not bad for having front brakes done, and why get so uppity about him wanting to save you some cash? - you would have given him an extra £20, which he would then have handed over to the taxman, what's the point in that?

[Jo]

I paid with cheque. So yes I paid the VAT.

Jo

[Cicero]

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You said,

"I'm a skint student, can you please give me a discount?" and he said "If you pay cash with no receipt we can take the VAT off".

It seems that you're the 'shifty' character - asking an honest tradesman to cheat the system for your benefit.

What was the 'unrelated problem' for which your car was taken to the garage? Something else dangerous perhaps, caused by your probable lack of maintenance and self-confessed ignorance?

I hope you change your attitude before you qualify as a doctor or some of your patients will certainly show some strong disapproval of your bedside manner.

Cic.

[Spamlet]

I live in Cambridge. He charged for 1.5 hours of labour and just the brake pads were replaced.

Jo

You may have got off lightly too. Plenty of places seem to insist that you need new discs as well...

S

[The Natural Philosopher]

Those were the days. Not :-) I think there is a more fundamental point at work here.

It has to do with a different mindset.

To may people a car is a thing with wheels that gets them from A to B and that's it. Its 'safe' if it passes an MOT and its 'legal' if it has the relevant paperwork to prove it, and is driven within a strict set of guidelines that are nothing more than that. A strict set of guidelines.

Those of us who have been more deeply involved with cars, see things differently. Its a machine, and engineering compromise, nowhere near as safe as it could be, and only as safe as it needs to be, or can be, at the price it's sold at. When we get into a car, we are acutely aware we are in control of a lethal weapon that kills 3000 people a year, and that its safety as such is eroded next time, and the only effect the annual MOT has is that the grosser examples of cars that are not fit to be on the road, are, by and large, kept off it. Good maintenance will lift its safety margin considerably above the 'legal minimum'

When I test drove an XKR 'Silverstone', I did an emergency stop on an empty road from 130mph. That car had what I call proper brakes. Not racing brakes, but proper brakes for a road car. I believe Porsche has similar. Brakes that really will stop you from autobahn speeds without fading, again and again.

The jaguar double wishbone keeps you stable on an bumpy curve. In the way a McPherson strut never will. Anyone who has driven a Triumph Herald, vitesse or spitfire knows that whilst the front suspension is almost best of class, the rear is undoubtedly the worst. Its comfortable, but alarmingly unstable.

Where do you draw the line? Pads are cheap, and burnt out brakes are something you wont discover until you really need them, and then its too late.

I used to maintain my sports cars to a far higher standard than the MOT required. I could feel wheel bearing play, and suspension play. You may not normally need to hit a crisp packet in a fast swerve at 70mph, but perhaps one day you may need to. I don't mess with car maintenance of the brakes tyres and suspension or seat belts.. That's *all* that keeps you on the road, finally. What price your life? or a major injury?

[Jo]

I'm beginning to wonder if the job was really necessary now.

If he wants to fiddle with his VAT then that is his decision, I'm not here to police tax evaders. However, I raised it as a reason to justify my impression that he was a dodgy guy, otherwise I'd just be accused of being paranoid without due cause (there were other non verbal cues but probably not worth elaborating on).

I'm a fairly perceptive judge of character even though I'm quite young and obviously come across as a chump!!

I just wish I was more assertive and said "No" to the job when he found incidental problems with the car while doing some other work on it.

Jo

[Jo]

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No, I asked a tradesman to give me a discount. I didn't ask him to cheat the system.

Not relevant.

I'm better with people than anything mechanical.

Jo

[Jim]

Asking for a discount is not a crime.

[Phil L]

You asked if you'd been ripped off, in my opinion, no you was'nt, £85 isn't excessive. Whether they needed replacing now or in the not-too-distant future or not is not clear, but they don't last forever and you now know you have a full set of working brakes, something you may not have realised until it was too late, given your self confessed ignorance of mechanics and car maintenance

[martin]

Ah that's better. They are a bit mank! It was probably the right thing to do seeing what state they are in. I don't think the cost was that high really, it takes me an hour to change my brake pads, but I do like to stop for a cup of tea between each one :)

[The Natural Philosopher]

indeed. And then failing to replace the totally seized callipers so the new disk lasted a mere 500 miles.

[Reg]

There are plenty of dodgy doctors about believe me. You'll fit in well.

otherwise I'd just be

Yes now we know what sort of doctor you will make.

[AlanG]

He just saved your life and probably someone else's

Driving a car with dodgy brakes is worse

[Reg]

You wanted £20 out of the guys pocket?

[Ian]

Is it? I can understand a faulty seal allowing sump oil into the bellhousing area, but not antifreeze. Unless he has a watercooled clutch, of course........ (or, possibly, a defective intercooler which is allowing antifreeze into the oil, in which case a failed seal is the least of his problems).

[Andy Burns]

Fair enough.

Regardless of how or little the pads were actually worn down, they do look rather crumbled away at the edges, impossible to say now whether they were like that before they started removing them, but I wouldn't fancy them on my car, and it doesn't sound like the price they charged you was OTT, you'd probably have come away more skint if you'd gone to one of the "big name" chains ...

[martin]

Nonsense. He simply asked for a discount. Heck I do it all the time, I got 50 quid knocked off two pairs of glasses a few weeks ago bringing them down to an online price I found.

There's nowt shifty about asking for a discount.

Why? If he goes into private practice I am sure he'd be expecting to negotiate.

"Well the cost of the boob job will be £5000"

*intake of breath through teeth* "hmmm that's a little more than I had budgeted, maybe we'll come back after discussing it" "Well, if you can come in at short notice we could do it for £4000 but it would have to be the next day after a call should we get a cancellation, sometime in the next 3 weeks"

easy job

[Cicero]

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Very well then, you asked a tradesman to gift you a part of his wages because you claim to be hard up but not too hard up to afford to run a car.

Given your self-confessed ignorance it's difficult to believe that an unrelated matter prompted the mechanic to inspect your brakes and suggest immediate replacement.

I think the fact that you consider a person to be 'shifty' because he suggests a way to give you the discount you asked for would suggest that your people skills are no better than your mechanical skills.