As an occasional and always very hesitant diy plumber, I've always used traditional soldered or compression fittings in the past. I'm just about to fit an outside tap and my local B&Q has a very patchy stock of fittings. As a result I've bought a brass tap plus a selection of these new fangled push fit fittings (some copper, some plastic).
I'm a bit wary of the push fit stuff - is there anything I should watch out for? What if it leaks on test, how do I tighten it up or get it apart again?
Make sure you use the correct pipe inserts for the correct fittings and dont mix and match. follow all the instructions. I find it very easy to use and very reliable. Different manafacturers have different methods of releasing. I find speedfit the best nice and easy to release. Hep20 is a bit of a nightmare to release, or this may be just my lack of experience with the product.
A bit bemused by the comment about releasing Hep2O fittings as all you have to do is undo the ring and it comes part, whereas I find speedfit more of a faff personally.
To the OP re leaking, I used loads in a lot of the plumbing in my old house, the only time I had leak was when a pipe in an awkward location was not properly inserted
I don't buy this. When I started using plastic pipes I used a hacksaw and trimmed of the pipe edge. As long as the cut is square all is fine as the pipe indert isolates the pipe from the O ring as it is being pushed on the pipe. For a few joints, using a hacksaw and some care, and all is fine. I use a =A340 gun type pipe cutter as I now use lots of plastic pipe.
The Hepworth slimline range are not demountable, as I found out to my dismay. They are much slimmer than the large bulky Hep2O fittings. Osma Gold is slim and demountable, requiring a special tool. I try to use Osma or Hep2O. I avoid Speedfit as I don't like plastic pipe inserts. I like to use brass Conex compression fitting and plastic where pipes are difficult to fit and out of sight. Plastic has a DIY image and may turn people off buying a house. I have used brass push fit fittings and copper pipe to great effect in positions where pipes are seen. Use grease on the pipe before pushing on the fitting, otherwisw the O ring may get dislodged. =20
I don't buy this. When I started using plastic pipes I used a hacksaw and trimmed of the pipe edge. As long as the cut is square all is fine as the pipe indert isolates the pipe from the O ring as it is being pushed on the pipe. For a few joints, using a hacksaw and some care, and all is fine. I use a =A340 gun type pipe cutter as I now use lots of plastic pipe.
The Hepworth slimline range are not demountable, as I found out to my dismay. They are much slimmer than the large bulky Hep2O fittings. Osma Gold is slim and demountable, requiring a special tool. I try to use Osma or Hep2O. I avoid Speedfit as I don't like plastic pipe inserts. I like to use brass Conex compression fitting and plastic where pipes are difficult to fit and out of sight. Plastic has a DIY image and may turn people off buying a house. I have used brass push fit fittings and copper pipe to great effect in positions where pipes are seen. Use grease on the pipe before pushing on the fitting, otherwisw the O ring may get dislodged. =20
More ukdiy paranoia. I was about to write "grow up", then I figured it isn't worth it.
If I recall rightly he never had a flood, he had a faulty Speedfit fitting and informed the group to beware. I take notice of this sort of advice as I don't want problems when I fit pipes. I want to avoid problem products and areas. I had given up on Speedfit before he posted about it. I find the new locking Speedfit fittings are expensive and bulky. I only use Speedfit when they are the only fittings available. Wickes, B and Q and Homebase stock them as standard and at times I have no choice. I prefer Osma Gold, which is about the same price as Hep2O and much neater to look at.
To the OP. That is bunkum. I have made lots of joints using a hacksaw to cut plastic pipe. Hepworth on this actual group told everyone that a plastic pipe cutter is not needed, and other tools can be used if care is taken. A high quality pipe cutter is essential when doing a whole system as they are very quick and easy. When fitting a sink unit using a few joints they are not essential. As I have stated, make sure the end of the pipe is square and trimmed off with a Stanley knife or fine file. Use a mitre block to get a square cut, if you have one. The pipe insert protects the O ring from the pipe behind it as the fitting is pushed on. Any problems will be the O ring snagging any burr on the pipe edge as the O ring slides over. Keep the pipe and fitting well greased and twist slightly as you push. If you are only fitting a sink unit then use high quality compression joints and copper pipes, not plastic. Compression joints are easy to undo. Brass pushfit fittings are difficult to undo even using the dismounting tool. The pushfit flexible connectors can be used on copper pipe without inserts. Make sure the copper pipe is cut with a sharp pipe cutter and no burred edges and grease the pipe well. Do not overtighten the pipe cutter as you turn it as this may oval the pipe. An oval pipe end may not make a good seal with a pushfit fitting. If you do oval the pipe, push it into a compression fitting to round it back up again. I now pipe up sink mixer taps with rigid copper and compression joints. The copper pipe keeps the mixer tap rigid. When flexible connectors are used the mixer tap flexes on a thin stainless steel sink unit. This may be a turn off to a potential house buyer, giving a flimsy DIY feel. I hope this helps
The cheap cutters are not worth it. You may as well use a sharp axe.
That's what he *said*. However, many people here have used Speedfit and other brands of push fit fitting both on a DIY and professional basis with no problems at all, therefore one is much more likely to believe that it was operator error. Do you seriously believe that a manufacturer is going to take any notice of somebody running into a problem with a product when they choose to ignore the instructions.?
Exactly. If you use a pipe cutter, the problems can be avoided.
The manufacturers take a different view.
Please refer to:
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(refers to Osma Gold)
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What they *actually* said was:
"We do recommend the use of a Hep2O pipe cutter, however any pipe cutter designed to cut plastics pipes should be suitable. One of the major advantages of a purpose designed cutter is speed, however the requirements for the cutter are that it should cut the tube square without scoring or scratching the pipe or leaving burrs or swarf which could get under the 'O' ring. It is for this reason that hacksaws should not be used.
The inventive can find many ways of achieving a perfectly acceptable clean, square cut using a variety of tools. "
This does not read to me as being an endorsement to use a hacksaw.
In the case of plastic pipe, it also supports the shape of the pipe in the fitting.
Which can be avoided by using the proper tools.
For a small number of joints, they are perfectly adequate and can be resharpened if needed or treated as disposable.
A look at other plumbing forums will tell that is also bunkum. One thread here has a list of the forums. There are numerous reports over the years of failed plastic fittings of all makes.
Or maybe a faulty fitting. The plumbing forums report many of these.
You appear to be confused. A defective fitting is clear, as it is defective. Someone cutting a plastic pipe not square and leaving burred edges is entirely poor craftsmanship. I can get a clean square burr free cut on a plastic pipe, as good as my pipe cutter, using other tools. It will take a lot more time and care, yet entirely possible. BTW, I Googled IMMs original post and he said that the O ring dislodged as the pipe was being pushed through as the fitting was defective. This has no connection with a burred edge. That happened to me once using a Hep2O fitting. You can feel after a time whether the pipe is fully home of something is wrong. I disassembled the fitting, slipped the nut on the pipe, then the grab ring and slipped the O ring over the pipe, then slipping on the body of the fitting, screwed up and then pushed hard. It held. Have you ever done much plastic pipework? It is clear you have not. I use plastic pipe a lot as I do all the plumbing work on my renovations. I found plumbers not very good, very expensive and stuck in the past, with most wanting to slap in tanks everywhere with exposed pipes. Over the past 7 years my skills have grown to as good as theirs.
IMMs reported problem was not the cutting of the pipe, it was a defective fitting. You can't seem to understand this. If many reports emerge of defects with one maker then that is a make to avoid.
essential. They are right, as anyone with care can produce a square clean cut on a plastic pipe without spending a lot of money on a special pipe cutter. Steve, the OP, only wants to fit an outside tap. If he took your ill advice, he would buy a =A315 cutter not to be used again.
It does to me. The last sentence says it all. I have got perfect pipe ends not using a plastic pipe cutter. Cut it square and use other tools to trim it off. Unfortunately I couldn't find any other way to cut the pipe without using a hacksaw. It would be nice if Hepworth could expand on that sentence and name the "variety of tools". Maybe they know another method of cutting the pipe without a hacksaw and plastic pipe cutter. I did manage to cut some plastic using a new copper pipe cutter once. As soon as the wheel dulled it was not possible.
This getting all silly. Achieving a perfectly square cut on a plastic pipe is possible using various methods. A plastic pipe cutter is not essential. I have been caught without my plastic pipe cutter and each time have managed a perfect pipe end without it. If your craft skills are not good enough to achieve perfect pipe end, you can't expect DIY people to have all the skills, then for you a plastic pipe cutter is the way. Don't assume all others do not have the skills to get a perfect pipe end.
That is correct. There is only two ways that an O ring can be snagged. The pipe is not square and the there are burred edges. Once square and free of burrs the pipe insert guides the O ring over the pipe edge without any problems, as long as the pipe is well greased.
Or as Hepworth stated "using a variety of tools". If you can't get a square clean burr free edge on a plastic pipe without using a cutter you are kak handed and should not be doing pipework. As I said, anyone with good craft skills can get a good pipe edge. You have this obsession about using a plastic pipe cutter, nothing personal, but probably because of poor craft skills.
I bought one and threw it away, as it was a waste of time. It left sharp nicks in the end of the pipe. I would rather use a hacksaw, Stanley knife and fine file, as I know I can get a better edge that way. Don't use cheap tools, it is not worth it.
See my reply to Andy Hall. The biggest manufacturer, Hepworth appear confused on the point.
Well who else are you going to blame if you screw up a pipe end? Take care and a perfect pipe end can be achieved as Hepworth stated "using a variety of tools".
A waste of time and a liability from bitter experience. Either use a top quality plastic pipe cutter, or a hacksaw, stanley knife and fine file to trim off.
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