Any way to see down a drain to find a broken or fractured pipe?

[Sue Zooki]

I have a leak from the main drain from the house, which unfortunately runs under my garage base. I have a pit, 5'6" deep, in the garage, and the water is seeping into the pit. Getting the job done is no problem, but I want, if possible, to find exactly where the break or fracture is to cut down on guesswork, and the amount of digging of course.

I toyed with the idea of using a webcam on the end of drain rods to take a look for the break, but as it's at least 20 feet from the manhole, and the maximum length for a USB 1.1 cable is only around 10 feet, that idea was kicked into touch. Getting someone in with specialist camera gear is out of the question due to cost.

Anyone have any other suggestions other than, "Get digging matey"?

[watereed2003]

digital camera with movie function attached to roller skate + drain rods with a torch? stumped otherwise...

have you considered pit could just be sunk in to water table and concrete is finally letting it through. may sound ridiculous but I have seen a building where water table was only 3 ft below surface and digging foundations for conservatory was enough to reveal it. in this case you could simply "tank" (waterproof cement) the pit.

ben

[Huge]

Get a TV drain survey? My local council does it for £60.

[Hugh]

Is there any sign of subsidence to the property? Is there a gully taking surface water to the main sewer? They are prone to breaking ( or the pipe close by) if there is movement of the building. Any cracks in the relevant wall? How about the garage? Any cracks which might lead you to think that the drain is being collapsed? Both would cause water to leak and run under the garage floor. Thinking like this might give you a starting point rather than digging up the whole lot! Hugh

[OG]

Maplins have the following

B&W cctv that simply plugs into a scart socket (PSU included) Seems to come with a 20 metre lead.

DayNight Colour/BW with IR illumination .

Either of which may be of use. Stick one on a little trolly on the end of a drain-rod and it should allow you the access you need. Even if it doesn't, it sounds like a fun gadget.

[Sue Zooki]

I considered that, but my new camera is only 2 weeks old, so I'm not chancing it. The old one has no movie capabilty.

I wondered about that for a couple of seconds, but the pit has been in for around 15 years now and has been dry all that time. The walls are breeze block and have also always been dry.

I put some food colouring into the water to see if it was definitely coming from the house, which I needn't have done as I can now see that the water coming in about ten minutes after the tap has been run - the drain is about 2.5/3 feet away from the pit and at about half the depth of the pit.

I've gobbo'd it up for now, but I definitely need to get something done before the water washes the soil away from below the pipe and it breaks in two under its own weight.

[Sue Zooki]

It's something to enquire about, if my local council do it for a similar price.

[Sue Zooki]

No subsidence, no gullies, no cracks anywhere. The garage is on a 4" concrete base, on top of about 6" of hardcore and has been there 20 years. The nearest anyone else has been to the drain was when some company or other cabled this area, but that was about 10 years ago. I'm a bit worried about what I might find as the house is over 100 years old, so I expect the drain is too.

The reason I want to know exactly where the water is coming from is to get that starting point. The drain runs at an angle and at around 20 feet in the garage, it goes under the garage wall and out under the street. If the break is at that point, which I suspect it might be, (but as we all know, water won't necessarily take a direct route), then it would be easier for me to take a couple of flags up from the pavement and dig down from there. Any further back towards the house and it's easier to go through the pit wall.

Thanks to everyone for your replies. It's all food for thought.

[Sue Zooki]

You just reminded me that a (hopefully good) friend has one of these. I may be buying him a quart bottle of his favourite cider tonight. :)

[Hugh]

Sounds like you've found the problem. As I said - the gully or drain that is near the pit - break up the concrete above it, and dig down and you will possibly find the soil is washed away, and the gully/pipe broken - replace with a new plastic type, job done! If the soil is washed away from under the foundations of the house , you need to shove in a concrete mix (ballast) Is it a victorian property by any chance? With foundations about 10'' to 1 foot?

Hugh

[Harry Bloomfield]

Sue Zooki has brought this to us :

Aldi and/or Lidl had a IR B/W security camera on offer some while ago for about £30. They plug into a TV via a SCART socket, quite small, had built in IR illumination and were designed for outdoor use so fairly waterproof with a long lead. One of those might be just what you need.

[Rob Morley]

You can get active 5m USB extension cables (effectively a self- powered single-port hub) for about £15, and you can daisy-chain several together.

[jacob]

Our local drain specialist did the job for us for =A350. Waterproof camera in a torpedo shaped case on a line with the image on a TV screen. The line was much like black alkathene water pipe on a roll but semi rigid and could be poked a long way like a drain rod. Fascinating viewing with a very clear image of the pipe and it's contents - bit like one of those coral reef nature films but with bits of sweet corn, bog roll etc instead of fish. Talk about seeing crap on the telly! Should have kept the video. The result was that we found no main drain but a soakaway pit instead, which accounts for the periodical blockage.

cheers

Jacob

[Sue Zooki]

It's Victorian, but the leak is about 20/25 feet away from the house.

[ben]

Yep! a pinhole camera, a led and a mouse/hamster, tie pinhole camera and led (with long lead), to rodents back and send it on its way. :-)

[Sue Zooki]

Ah, I didn't know about those. That could make things easier.

[Sue Zooki]

Heheh. If I wait a few months, my cat should be thin enough to fit down there.

[Capitol]

A few questions to start with!

1) How long has the pit been flooding? 2) Does it only do it after it rains for a few days? 3) How is the pit constructed?(concrete, brick etc) 4) Are you on mains drainage? 5) Have you a leaking watermain?

IME pits always flood due to groundwater unless tanked, it's just a question of when and how much. I'd look to waterproof the pit before I even considered doing more than putting a rod down the drain to check if had been tree rooted. Drains normally(even Victorian) do not have stagnant water levels in them, the flow is pretty good provided toilet waste is passing regularly.

Regards Capitol

[Rick]

By the time you have spent 100 quid on the camera, you could have hired a mini digger (60 quid a day round my way) and dug the whole pipe out.

I'd guess, based on which bit of the pit gets wet first, and dig by hand, casue a min digger in the garage in the hands of a dsylexic, is likley to end in bad problems.

Rick

[andrewpreece]

I found a leak in my 4" ID salt glazed clay sewer pipe the other day, by indirect methods. I opened the inspection cover on the pit that the sewer pipe runs through as it exits my property, then bunged up the sewer pipe on the house side, with an outsize cotton-bud type thing I made from a pole, rags and clingfilm.

I then filled up the sewer by running the outside tap in my gully ( my soil pipe and my grey/rainwater all empty into the same pipe ), though if you have separate waste systems you'll have to fill the one in question appropriately. I turned off the tap when the gully started to fill up.

I was then able to watch the water level in my gully rapidly dropping, down to a certain level. That gave me an idea of the size of leak, it gave me its height, and fortuitously, since the leak had carved a cubic foot hole away from under the pipe over the years, I could actually hear a splashing gurgling sound where the leak was underground, though it as to be said the pipe was only a few inches down at that point, under a thin layer of cement.

As an aid to hearing the leak, a stick held to the ear and the ground can help. This technique is only helpful where there is a void in the ground though, so there is a free water surface that can make a splashing sound.

Andy.