Any reason not to put 13A sockets upside down?

[BigWallop]

So you think people in wheelchairs don't iron their clothes or use vacuum cleaners ? My mother was wheelchair bound after an accident and still went about her normal life of ironing the clothes and vacuuming the house. We lifted all the sockets, and put new ones in, so she could reach them easier. I think after you've seen how someone in a wheelchair can be just as independent as everyone else, then you'll realise how stupid your last reply sounds.

OK, they might not find it too difficult to bend over and plug something in, but doing this all the time can cause more injury and discomfort to the person than is really necessary in everyday life. So isn't it easier to make small adjustments right at the start ? It make the things we use everyday to make it easier and more comfortable for everyone to use.

I think you might look back one day and say to yourself, boy, I could've done with lifting these sockets a bit higher up the wall when I had the chance. Everyone gets older and finds it more difficult to bend or stoop to plug the iron in the wall socket, so why not do it right at the start of the build ? That way, everyone can use them without discomfort.

When I stop and think about it, after we did the remodelling for my Mum, we all found things were easier to get at and use, so why didn't we have it like that in the beginning ? Weird. :-))

[Abdullah Eyles]

Don't ask me which way they put them in Australia... ;)

[usenet]

According to the current building regulations, yes.

[usenet]

It really depends on the situation doesn't it? In 'living' rooms I think higher sockets do make sense as there really aren't many cases where floor level ones are any better and higher ones are simply easier to reach for *everyone*.

Now I think about it even in my study (where I was going to say lower sockets might make sense) I have added a lot of sockets at just above desk height and they're the ones that get used all the time.

[David W.E. Roberts]

They have ELECTRICTY in Australia?

Cool!

[RichardS]

Question is, after you have your nice shiny new-build or material extension according to Regs, is there anything to stop you retro-fitting all the sockets back to a normal height to suit the decor/normal usage?

cheers Richard

-- Richard Sampson

email me at richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

[Steve Walker]

My father was involved in the implementation of the requirement for sleeved pins and tells me that this was purely to satisfy government busybodies who were convinced there was a danger despite the evidence presented to them by the electrical accessories industry. The sockets are designed so that contact is lost before the plug is far enough out for your fingers to slide behind the plug.

I feel that the regulations are just too strict - maybe the required height range is sensible, but there should be some flexibility to allow for circumstances (computer desk with back that would block access to sockets any higher than skirting level; tv on wall bracket high up - I want the plug hidden behind it; display cabinets with internal lights - I'd prefer the sockets above the units so that they can be unplugged without moving the cabinet and cabinet is in alcove, preventing socket to either side). I know that this is *very* detailed planning, but if I'm having a house built and know how I'm going to use certain rooms, why shouldn't I have the choice to do what is practical for me. If someone buys the house later and wants the sockets elsewhere, they can move them. If someone in my family became disabled, I'd move the sockets that were a problem for them.

[nightjar]

My recollection is that MK marketed them as a safety feature, along with a screwless cord grip, for several years before regulation made them compulsory.

Perhaps that is the case today. However, even with my size of fingers, I've given myself a jolt that way, so it would have been a lot easier for a child to do so.

Colin Bignell

[Christian McArdle]

I believe that the requirement is only when they could reasonably be expected to be used by disabled guests. I'm sure there would be nothing to prevent you having a high socket for a specific reason (i.e. the TV mounting), provided there are enough low ones for granny to plug in her mobile.

Christian.

[Dave Plowman]

Plenty of electronics have small value capacitors for RFI reasons that can give you a tingle if you touch the appropriate pins shortly after unplugging or while unplugging.

[BigWallop]

There is nothing to stop you from making two rows of sockets, one at low level and one at high level, just as long as you don't exceed the cable requirements.

[Tony Bryer]

The very earliest MK ones (late 1960's?) had spring loaded sleeves that went into the body of the plug as you pushed it into the socket.

[Andrew Gabriel]

Somewhere around age 4, I managed to do this without any trouble...

This reminds me of an article I just read on The Register

's the waffle at the beginning I'm referring to, not the meat of the article (which is actually pretty non-existant).

[nightjar]

1) I've touched live mains often enough to know the difference 2) I was plugging it in 3) It was a two-bar electric fire

Colin Bignell

[bob]

Quality of british electrical accessories is a pet hate of mine,,, First the location, You can mount sockets in the floor or ceiling using a BS standard outlet, then any height on a wall and if a building inspector objects, tell him(or her) that it is nothing to do with them. The part P is Proposed not implemented and if it does become law (Blairs nanny state again) you can lodge an objection then an appeal and without doubt you will win. The IEE regulations are the basis of the proposed building regulations and have one purpose only and that MUST be interpereted into any requirment by a local authority (Council Building Inspector)and that purpose is "TO PREVENT DANGER". No organisation can make you conform to any electrical regulation just because it is a Regulation Good Luck Bob

[Steve Walker]

As long as the BCOs see it this way, that's fair enough.

[Andy Dingley]

They also had a socket with a very short contact length, so that there was a near immediate disconnection. It was also intended to be finger-proof against small children.

Give them 10-20 years and the extra contact springs went weak, leading to a poor connection, high resistance and overheating. My parents had one that had a damned good go at starting a fire

-- Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods

[Christian McArdle]

The requirement is under Part M, not Part P. (Part M2, Section 8). It is current. It is not worded particularly strictly:

8.3 A way of satisfying the requirements would be to provide switches and socket outlets for lighting and other equipment in habitable rooms at appropriate heights between 450mm and 1200mm from finished floor level.

Christian.

[John Armstrong]

Actually, that isn't the requirement. That is just an approved way of fulfilling the requirement, as are all the approved documents. The actual requirement is even more vague: "Reasonable provision shall be made for disabled people to gain access to and to use the building."

[The Natural Philosopher]

Yep. I suggested to my building ispnector that I would build little ramps up to the light switches just in case any gnarled old ladies nedded to use the house, and remove them when they left.

He didn't seem to think it was that amusing.