Angle drills

[Paul Mc Cann]

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 03:15:16 +0000, Andy Hall wrote: snip

snip

I discovered some years back, to my cost, the difference between Ryobi U.S.A. and Ryobi Japan. I had a perfectly good split boom strimmer with various attachments which in a moment of madness I sold to a brother-in-law and decided to treat myself to a new one.

The original was Japanese and the replacement U.S.A. The difference was immediately obvious as soon as I took the new one out of the box.

Some time later whilst in a different suppliers the difference was explained to me.

IME RYOBI U.S.A. products were IMHO junk whereas RYOBI Japan were acceptable

My general experience with American manufactured garden products is that they produce a lot of items manufactued down to a priice instead of up to a standard.

Paul Mc Cann

[Huge]

[23 lines snipped]

My experience exactly of my American ride-on mower. In the 11 years I've owned it, I've welded a steady succession of bits back on to it, and then three weeks ago, it broke it's con-rod while I was using it to hoover up leaves.

I was once in Rochester, NY, on business, and heard a comment on a radio station that has stayed with me ever since; "This programme is made in the American way - shoddily and with a view to a profit".

[Thomas Prufer]

Why? It's no more dangerous than a chuck spinning at a similar speed in a straight drive...

Thomas Prufer

[Tony Bryer]

Precisely: the small Ferm angle grinder sold by Screwfix has a no load speed of 11,000 rpm whilst a drill would be 3,000rpm.

But I did muse a while back that for a change of gear ratios they could be selling a £25 angle drill

[IMM]

Angle grinders tend to spin at far greater speeds and a chuck secured with a bolt that was not designed for the task may create a metal lump to fly about dangerously.

[Toolmaker]

Just to correct a few incorrect statements

Ryobi are owned by Techtronic Industries in Hong Kong

Ryobi as a brand is exclusive to Tool Bank in the UK, I believe. In other markets it is a very strong brand. TTI are very strong in Power Tools, making products for B&Q and JCB in the UK, Home Depot and Sears Roebuck in the USA, for example.

This same company owns the floorcare brands VAX, Dirt Devil and Royal Appliances. They manufacture for Bissell, Bosch, etc.

You are looking at the wrong company as Ryobi of Japan only manufacture for the home market now. TTI who make the 'international' power tools have a turnover in Power Tools of about USD1,000M. Compare this with Black and Decker with approx USD3,100M (covering a wider product range), and you can see that they are almost in the same league. TTI are expanding their share and B&D are losing theirs.

Ryobi brand is not exclusive to Home Depot in US.

They are not a Mickey Mouse outfit and you are correct hta they are not poor quality

TTI also make the Ridgid brand which is Home Depot's professional range as well as semi pro own brand tools for UK retailers.

[Andy Hall]

Exactly my point. TTI have virtually zero market presence themselves and manufacture private label and OEM products for others.

Which is I am sure why B&D is rapidly moving manufacture of low end products to the far east.

It's meaningless to compare an OEM manufacturing house with a major single product brand.

"We're proud to sell our tools exclusively through The Home Depot, where the values are unbeatable, the staff is knowledgeable and friendly - and you're just steps away from everything else you need to enjoy your RTI tools to the fullest".

Err no. It's Home Depot's range, but the quality is not professional. I've examined some of their products quite carefully and they are most certainly not,

That says it all.......

.andy

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[OldScrawn]

Sorry I never meant to start a flame war. Not so many years back, you could only get the slightly more specialist power tools like angle grinders, jigsaws, routers from the "advertised" names. These days you can get more exotic stuff like biscuit cutters, planers, belt sanders that seem to be (mostly) fine for the DIY market at a fraction of the price. It just struck me that the angle drill is a: occasionally quite useful and b: not much more complex to make than a standard hammer drill. So why isn't anyone selling a "cheepy"?

But thanks for all the response! I've always managed joists with a standard mains drill and a spade bit (sometimes in an extension). Now I really can't decide if I must have a mains angle drill for this, or whether I need a "big name" battery drill, or whether I should wait for a Ferm!

S

[Andy Hall]

It's OK, you didn't.

One reason is because the major brand manufacturers invested in the R&D to develop them and in some areas patented the ideas.

It really depends on what you are looking for. Generally DIY grade tools are intended for lowish usage rates and depending on the type of tool, may not have the accuracy, ergonomics or performance of a higher grade product. The motor controls in cordless tools are a good example of this - the better products like Makita have much better trigger control than the cheapies.

Also, when buying tools there is more to the equation than the initial price tag. The important factor is really the cost over a period of time. It may be interesting in some ways to have a low price product with a three year warranty. However, if you value your time and need to return it three times during that period, you will have probably blown away any cost saving. Let's say you would bring in a tradesperson to so a job for you. Daily rates are in the £120 - £150 area. By DIYing, you save this cost. If a product needs to be returned then I reckon about 1/3 to 1/2 a day to do it - anything up to £75. For many power tools this makes the difference between something poor to average and something pretty good, so I tend to view buying just on the price tag as a false economy.

Because the volume isn't there. The whole premise of the cheap unbranded tools sold through consumer channels is one of volume. It allows for large factories to gear up for huge production runs and allows retailers to give long warranties because they can play the numbers game and sling faulty product into the skip. It's all factored into the margin. Retailers have return volume allowances with the suppliers and as long as returns stay within that nobody cares.

You can always cut down a spade bit if you need to get into a tighter space with one, but there are also short augers on the market which work more easily.

I've bought several Makita battery drills and all have performed faultlessly.

.andy

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[IMM]

Since when have DIYers costed their time? Many are time rich, cash poor.

It soon will be. Every 6 months or so a new battery angle drill comes onto the market, with Ryobi the latest with am excellent deal. the only point so far is that you can't buy the angle drills separately. Maybe just an initial launch promotion. At £114 it is worth getting just for the angle drill alone and throwing away the 14.4 v drill/driver, when looking the price of the competition. Kitchen fitters are now adopting angle drill/drivers now, becoming a "must have" tool, like their sliding mitre saws.

The only fault with them is the price. Well for occasional DIY anyhow.

[Andy Hall]

I certainly do and I am sure that a lot of other people do as well.

The equation is between the cost of having the work done and doing it yourself including the cost of materials and the lifetime cost of the tools.

I've tried this one out, and I am sorry but it is nowhere near Makita's quality and usability level.

Nothing new there.

As I say, one needs to look at the complete equation, not just the initial price tag

.andy

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[IMM]

It is only new on the market. Where? when?

No one is saying Makita is poor quality. The point is, the tool for intened use, which is DIY in tis case. Nevertheless the Ryobi is good quality, works well and does what it is supposed to do. If you assess the price of the 14.4 v drill/driver as about the same as the angle drill, then that is £57 for the angle drill, when Makita's are going for £170. That is approx THREE times the price.

Exactly!

I am waiting for a mains cheapy to come along for the amont of use I would give one. All they are is angle grinder geared down, and you can buy them for £12.

[Andy Hall]

One of the stands at the Axminster tool show last month had one. I don't remember which.

You've tried one? The speed control is nowhere near as good as on the Makita drills, and for a tool of this type is critical.

This depends on how you want to count it. I already said that in my view, just looking at the initial price tag only gives a small piece of the overall story.

That's fine. If it's your understanding of the way in which an angle drill works and your use is minimal then a £12 product is probably appropriate for your needs anyway.

Since it's coming up to Christmas, have a look at this

suit your needs and great value at only £29.95

If you promise to behave then I'll write to Santa for you.

.andy

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[IMM]

If it is to the quality of their drill/drivers then it is good.

From 1 and the 2 and onwards.

The Ryobi is not a £12 cheapy.

I think they are cheaoer at B&Q

You are considerate.

[Andy Hall]

So "no" then.

I didn't say that it was nor that it was junk. It is suitable for some applications and budgets, but is not at Makita's standard.

Probably.

I'm all heart :-)

.andy

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[Paul Mc Cann]

Personally I couldn't agree with this sentiment. I will often do the job myself because I frequently can do it to a better standard, but the primary reason for diy for me is the sheer trouble of finding someone to do the job, at any price, never mind finding someon to do it at a sensible price.

Having said that I do get pleasure in diy.

Paul Mc Cann

[Huge]

As it happens, I'm the opposite. But I still DIY.

Hear, hear. And this is the main reason I DIY.

[Andy Hall]

I agree with your points as well, Paul, regarding quality of work, getting people and enjoying doing the job.

I was trying to relate my comments to the economic ones in terms of why I prefer to buy professional and branded tools for the most part. I also find that the better job that I can almost always do is a benefit as well, to me at least, but it's hard to quantify that,. It's also perfectly legitimate to spend one's money or something that one likes, of course........

.andy

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[IMM]

tool stall. Does the job well, and all for £15. Beats paying £170

[Andy Hall]

bicycle beats a car. Without getting into the merits of exercise, both get you from A to B and the bicycle is cheaper, but that's about it...

.andy

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