Angle drills

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Anyone know of cheaper "unbranded" ones? For the limited use I'd make of one, 90 squid for a Bosch from Screwfix seems a bit much
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one,
That is for a driver really. 7.2V is not that powerful to use for constant drilling, say in wooden joists. It only has one battery too. Do a google on "angle drill", I recall seeing a mains operated one for around £90. These have much more power. Unfortunately there are no cheap mains angle drills. Protrade http://www.protrade-direct.co.uk sent me a catalogue and are pushing a Roybio 14.4 v angle drill and a 14.4 v drill/driver and charger and bag for £114 inc VAT & del. If you need two drills then is the one to go for. DeWalt are selling a similar angle drill with two batteries for around £170 Tool shops sell angle converters for around £12-15.
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That URL should be http://www.protrade.co.uk /.
-- cheers,
witchy/binarydinosaurs
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Thanks; the immediate need is for pilot holes & screws (fitting kitchen cabinets) rather than joists, but that Ryobi deal looks good. Is everyone happy with Ryobi (serious amateur, rather than pro)?
S
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happy
I would say into the pro range. Protrade don't sell amateur DIY from what I know.
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On 02 Dec 2003 21:05:46 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (OldScrawn) wrote:

A better solution is to go for one of the branded makes and share the batteries among several tools.
Take a look at http://www.toolshopdirect.co.uk/ishop/982/shopscr24.html
Some while ago I bought a Makita angle drill and actually have ended up using it much more than I thought I would. This site has the 12v version without battery and charger for £81 The torque on it is excellent because it is more highly geared than regular drills and will comfortably drill through joists using an auger bit rather than a spade bit. For pilot holes and driving screws it's excellent.
I then have another Makita 12v drill which came with three batteries and a fast charger in a special deal from Axminster Tools. I can cycle three batteries through the charger and can basically run both tools concurrently on a job.
.andy
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(OldScrawn) wrote:

happy
Ryobi is a brand, it's called, Ryobi.

Screwfix sell the 9.6v Makita for £160 and its cmes with"two" batteries. One battery is worth about £60-70

How much for this 12v drill?
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Not in the same sense as Makita, Bosch, etc.
They are more of an OEM manufacturer with products being labelled for various outlets. For example, in the U.S. their own named products are sold only through Home Depot.

At the time, IIRC, about £100 or so.

.andy
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wrote:> >Ryobi is a brand, it's called, Ryobi.

You are right. They begin with M and B not R.

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wrote:

Mains angle drill £119.39 Inc VAT & del http://www.worldofpower.co.uk/acatalog/angle_drill.html
Atachment £17: http://www.ishop.co.uk/ishop/982/shopscr2066.html
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wrote:

http://www.ryobi-group.co.jp/en/projects/powertools/index.html
I have seen this attachment for sale in tool shops for £12 http://www.cumminstools.com/browse.cfm/4,132.html
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Your point being?
The important issue is the quality point in the market, the product design and manufacturing and the service backup.
These are closely related to the strength of a brand in the market and a well defined positioning.
For example, Bosch have a green range (DIY) and a blue range (professional). Makita have predominantly a professional range.
They are broadly distributed and have the service backup to match. I don't consider three year warranties with no real service and repair a valid service offering because typically the product is junked at the end of that period since it will have been superceded. I would rather pay more for a higher quality product that will work better throughout its long life.
Ryobi position themselves with a range of predominantly DIY tools but do not have a strong brand position. Sorry, but a web site in Japan doesn't cut it.
I suggest you read their annual report. In 2003 their power tool sales fell by nealry 25% and they sold off their power tools subsidiaries outside Japan. Their sales of power tools were at only around $200M which is small for what they are doing. This, coupled with the financial data does not give a strong impression of commitment to the power tools market. Their main business is diecastings and printing machines.
A lot of what they make goes in rebadged form on the U.S. market, where as I mentioned they only sell their own bramd through Home Depot. Home Depot has a service arrangement worse than anything one has seen in the UK and plays the numbers game just like most UK sheds do with their own brand tools.
For example, Ryobi produces Sears Craftsman tool range, which has an apalling reputation nowadays in the U.S.
Private labelling of products has the advantage for a manufacturer that they can deliver product to more outlets without incurring the costs of maintaining their own support infrastructure. It's also a way to fill the factory. The problem is that this way of doing business is fiercely competitive and products have to be made down to a price. This way of working suits products positioned for the consumer market and sold through volume retail channels at cheap prices.
That's fine for what it is, but it has nothing to do with quality. This almost always comes from manufacturers who design and build good quality products and take responsibility themselves for them.
As a comparison, take a look at Makita's annual report. This has a much clearer message as to strategy and indicated increased sales figures to nearly $1500M for the same period in 2002/2003. There was a 20% increase in sales in Europe which also accounts for a third of their business. They have subsidiary sales and support organisations in virtually every country.
I would rather buy a higher quality and properly supported product, which, when all is taken into account costs the about the same in the long run as one that isn't, yet runs better and produces better results.

I am sure that these are fine for what they are. However, the dimensions of the gearbox appear to be a lot more than those of an angle drill and may not fit into a small space which is where an angle drill is often needed.

.andy
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I've only got the one Ryobi tool which is several years old now - it's a rechargeable Dremmel type device which gets heavy use (on light work, though) and I really can't fault it. Its batteries are original and have lasted better than any other rechargeable I own regardless - and this is IMHO the sign of quality. Nor was it expensive when bought from B&Q.
Sad that they didn't retain this quality/value compromise.
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wrote:

They are a lathe Japanese corporation, not a Chinese DIY outfit.

Not in the UK. In some countries some brands have status, while in other countries they do.

Making them in Japan gives status and they must be introducing new products. Not many do battery angle drills.

Maybe that is what they sold off the overseas subs.
The point is: Ryobi are a Mickey Mouse outfit and are not poor quality.

It is fine for the occasional drilling of say joists and the likes. I would not use it for driving.
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I don't think that they make lathes. Printing machines, but not lathes. They are far from being large in japanese terms and in power tools very small and apparently shrinking.

Like most companies, some production has moved to China. The issue then becomes the effectiveness of the quality control.

They sold off the subs, as stated in the annual report, because they were losing money heavily. This raises a big question mark concerning long term viability in the business area, certainly over the support and maintenance.

I wouldn't go as far as to describe them as a Mickey Mouse outfit, but they are not, by their own positioning in the professional quality market. Undoubtedly they are fit for purpose up to a point,.......

.andy
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Just to correct a few incorrect statements

Ryobi are owned by Techtronic Industries in Hong Kong (www.tti.com.hk). Ryobi as a brand is exclusive to Tool Bank in the UK, I believe. In other markets it is a very strong brand. TTI are very strong in Power Tools, making products for B&Q and JCB in the UK, Home Depot and Sears Roebuck in the USA, for example.
This same company owns the floorcare brands VAX, Dirt Devil and Royal Appliances. They manufacture for Bissell, Bosch, etc.

You are looking at the wrong company as Ryobi of Japan only manufacture for the home market now. TTI who make the 'international' power tools have a turnover in Power Tools of about USD1,000M. Compare this with Black and Decker with approx USD3,100M (covering a wider product range), and you can see that they are almost in the same league. TTI are expanding their share and B&D are losing theirs.

Ryobi brand is not exclusive to Home Depot in US.

They are not a Mickey Mouse outfit and you are correct hta they are not poor quality

TTI also make the Ridgid brand which is Home Depot's professional range as well as semi pro own brand tools for UK retailers.
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wrote:

Exactly my point. TTI have virtually zero market presence themselves and manufacture private label and OEM products for others.

Which is I am sure why B&D is rapidly moving manufacture of low end products to the far east.
It's meaningless to compare an OEM manufacturing house with a major single product brand.

http://www.ryobitools.com/about/about.asp?sectionida
"We're proud to sell our tools exclusively through The Home Depot, where the values are unbeatable, the staff is knowledgeable and friendly - and you're just steps away from everything else you need to enjoy your RTI tools to the fullest".

Err no. It's Home Depot's range, but the quality is not professional. I've examined some of their products quite carefully and they are most certainly not,

That says it all.......
.andy
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Sorry I never meant to start a flame war. Not so many years back, you could only get the slightly more specialist power tools like angle grinders, jigsaws, routers from the "advertised" names. These days you can get more exotic stuff like biscuit cutters, planers, belt sanders that seem to be (mostly) fine for the DIY market at a fraction of the price. It just struck me that the angle drill is a: occasionally quite useful and b: not much more complex to make than a standard hammer drill. So why isn't anyone selling a "cheepy"?
But thanks for all the response! I've always managed joists with a standard mains drill and a spade bit (sometimes in an extension). Now I really can't decide if I must have a mains angle drill for this, or whether I need a "big name" battery drill, or whether I should wait for a Ferm!
S
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On 04 Dec 2003 21:03:43 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (OldScrawn) wrote:

It's OK, you didn't.

One reason is because the major brand manufacturers invested in the R&D to develop them and in some areas patented the ideas.

It really depends on what you are looking for. Generally DIY grade tools are intended for lowish usage rates and depending on the type of tool, may not have the accuracy, ergonomics or performance of a higher grade product. The motor controls in cordless tools are a good example of this - the better products like Makita have much better trigger control than the cheapies.
Also, when buying tools there is more to the equation than the initial price tag. The important factor is really the cost over a period of time. It may be interesting in some ways to have a low price product with a three year warranty. However, if you value your time and need to return it three times during that period, you will have probably blown away any cost saving. Let's say you would bring in a tradesperson to so a job for you. Daily rates are in the £120 - £150 area. By DIYing, you save this cost. If a product needs to be returned then I reckon about 1/3 to 1/2 a day to do it - anything up to £75. For many power tools this makes the difference between something poor to average and something pretty good, so I tend to view buying just on the price tag as a false economy.

Because the volume isn't there. The whole premise of the cheap unbranded tools sold through consumer channels is one of volume. It allows for large factories to gear up for huge production runs and allows retailers to give long warranties because they can play the numbers game and sling faulty product into the skip. It's all factored into the margin. Retailers have return volume allowances with the suppliers and as long as returns stay within that nobody cares.

You can always cut down a spade bit if you need to get into a tighter space with one, but there are also short augers on the market which work more easily.
I've bought several Makita battery drills and all have performed faultlessly.

.andy
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(OldScrawn) wrote:

jigsaws,
for
Since when have DIYers costed their time? Many are time rich, cash poor.

make than

It soon will be. Every 6 months or so a new battery angle drill comes onto the market, with Ryobi the latest with am excellent deal. the only point so far is that you can't buy the angle drills separately. Maybe just an initial launch promotion. At £114 it is worth getting just for the angle drill alone and throwing away the 14.4 v drill/driver, when looking the price of the competition. Kitchen fitters are now adopting angle drill/drivers now, becoming a "must have" tool, like their sliding mitre saws.

standard
can't
"big
The only fault with them is the price. Well for occasional DIY anyhow.
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