And the result is washing machines which give you back clothes in more or less the same filthy state as when you put them in! So you have to wash them 2 or 3 times and the energy efficiency is unbelievably bad. I'm still regretting not rebuilding my old washing machine when it lost it's bearings, the local noise level is sometimes near deafening when she looks at the results of the new machine. Looks to me like the same effect as replacing an old working boiler with a modern piece of crap which will not last 5 years without failure! Totally false accounting. Just like buying a Prius!
So you have a 20 Amp fused (radial) circuit which...
...is only allowed to carry 16A for any single appliance where there is more than one outlet;
...could have two (or more?) 15A receptacles fitted - unfused;
...could therefore have receptacles fitted which are not rated to the capacity of the circuit or fused appropriately;
...could have receptacles fitted which although nominally rated at 15A are only allowed to supply 12A (1440W) continuously (why?, and what on earth is the difference between over three hours and under three hours? Over 30 minutes and under 30 minutes I might have understood)
...and how on earth is this policed?
I'm afraid it sounds like a dreadful bodge to me. Compliance with that kind of code relies hugely on the householder "behaving themselves". Compare that with our system where every single power take-off point is either fully rated for the fused capacity of the circuit (e.g. blue 16A/32A BS4343 plugs) or is separately fused at a suitable rating (e.g. 13A BS1363 plugs, 13A fused outlets). The onus to "get it right" is on the installer with these. Once correctly installed it is difficult for the user to misuse the system dangerously.
The machine is a Whirlpool AA1200. Temperature makes virtually no difference, The problem is IMO with both the wash and the rinse cycles. The wash efficiency by use is not significantly above zero! It also has a novel variety of user unfriendly features which we have only found out by experience. (Seems like about 40 minutes to achieve a rinse and spin function on hand washed items!) Some we are still learning( the hard way)!
Hum, make mental note to avoid Whirlpool's if this is really true. I have a Hotpoint and nearly all my washes are done at 35C. It always manages to clean everything without any repeat wash.
What washing detergent do you use? I normally use Persil Bio. I've heard Ecover is complete crap.
Sounds like something is wrong. I find modern machines very effective. In recent years I've had a Hotpoint Ultima and a Smeg. Both were 'A' rated for washing performance and I can believe it.
I used an American style top loader at university and it was complete cr*p. The clothes came out wet and dirty. The "rotating knife" in the middle chopped the clothes up.
I recently bought a Meile which uses a tiny amount of water compared to the old front loader, and it washes every bit as well and with a fraction of the noise. It's so quiet I'm happy to use it overnight if needed.
Similar to 13a limit per single appliance on a 30amp ring.
The receptacle is designed, and rated, for 20amp circuits, the appliance is limited to 15amps by the plugs configuration.
20amp receptacles are also permitted and becoming more common. the 20amp receptacle will accept either a 15 or 20amp plug.
Just like your 13amp rated on 30amp ring.
The receptacle can supply it's rating.
Appliances are limited. an 1800watt electric fire would not be allowed a 15amp plug even though it draws 15amps. It would require a 20amp plug which would prevent it from being used on a general purpose 15amp circuit.
Appliances are fitted with appropriate plugs by their makers.
All our outlets are connected to circuits that are fused at the rating of the outlet (NO exceptions).
Summary
We have 15amp and 20amp radial circuits for general use. The 20amp circuits may have either 15 or 20amp style outlets (or both). The 20amp style is a superset of the 15amp version and will accept either plug.
Appliances that draw under 1500watts for long times or 1800watts for short times have 15amp style plugs and can be used on either type of circuit.
Slightly larger appliances have 20amp style plugs and can only be used on 20amp circuits with 20amp style outlets.
All appliances incorporate appropriate internal protection based upon
20amp fusing in the circuit supplying them.
The system is not reliant upon the user knowing anything. The circuit protection will protect the circuit from overload.
It is not merely difficult to misuse to danger. It is extremely difficult to misuse to danger. Unless the over current devise in the panel (CU) is changed it is impossible to abuse to danger.
The 80% rules and plug configurations are to reduce circuit overloading and subsequent tripping of overload protection devises.
All a 30amp ring needs to become dangerous an unfused plug.
On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 13:29:53 +0100,it is alleged that Andy Hall spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:
I see your 'can't buy them' and raise you nails and/or bits of 30A fusewire wrapped round the fuse
In fairness to both sides here, neither system is dangerous *as designed*. Both can become dangerous due to consumer misuse.
Good British example is the above mentioned fuse-substitutes (although thankfully the public are getting better about this) and the antique and fortunately now rare unfused double adapters.
A good American example is the 13 amp extension cords/triple adapters that many people will happily plug a total of >13 amps and
But how many idiots then put the wrong rating of fuse in when they try to use a 5amp extension to supply a 3Kw fire.
That could not happen if the protection device was back at the board and needed more than a dining table knife blade to open...
IMO radial circuits were far safer from abuse, although they were more expencive to implement correctly, the ring circuit (as used in the UK) is a 'one size fits all' solution that is wide open to abuse.
On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 17:25:53 +0100,it is alleged that ":::Jerry::::" spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:
[snip]
Probably millions. I replaced all our 5 amp extensions with 13 amp ones using 1.5mm flex.
Or indeed just needed a switch flipped to reset it.
Totally agreed, it would increase the initial cost quite significantly though, you'd need many many more ways in the consumer unit, we'd have to use US style distribution panels rather than small consumer units.
Worthwhile in my opinion, but people want the cheapest they can get.
If you wire it up without any CU, using choc block on the meter tails, as has been done, and stick bolts in the plug fuse holders, as has been done, you can expect a Darwin award.
At least here we dont have anyone so dumb they made a shampoo bottle into a floating mains socket for use *IN* their pool.
Theyre not antique, and are common. I was still buying them new in the
90s, and used them en masse in extension leads. Safely I might add.
They were allowed for so long because in practice they have not caused problems. Think what happens when you plug 6kW continuous into one adaptor... not many people could tolerate that much heat for long enough for it to fry. And very few are quite that dumb. >3kW intermittent they will tolerate.
But I swore I wouldnt get sucked back into this silly thread.
That sounds good.. do you have any tips? How many 3 bars fires will I need sink to heat a 24x15 pool to 75F in January? Will they all work of one ring?
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