Alternatives to gas for central heating and domestic water heating?

[Christian McArdle]

Yes, things seem a lot more reasonable in Suffolk.

Christian.

[.]

In article , Christian McArdle writes

Its the six fingers on each hand that helps, oh no sorry that's NFN (Normal For Norfolk)

[Jimmy]

Some good points there. Looks like gas it is then - as long the meter-installers are happy to take a feed from the gas pipe going to the flat above. If they tell me I've got to have a separate main coming from the pipeline inder the road, I might have to opt for oil to avoid bankruptcy.

J

[BigWallop]

You should find it a standard sort of practice by the gas supply people, to install a pipe that will be suitable for at least double the amount of dwellings on a site. The mains to your property is meant for one large house, and the only alteration to this is the split in to two separate flats. So the pipework should still be suitable to supply the whole large property, but just in two parts.

Give them a call and find out the exact price for this work. Then decide.

[Jimmy]

Thanks... But give who a call? ...The various gas supply copmpanies, and see who offers the best price?

Cheers

J

[BigWallop]

Transco are the only people that fit mains gas pipes and meters, but your local, ask the neighbour, gas supplier will be able to put you through the wringer, sorry, give you a price for this. :-)

[Jimmy]

So, sorry to seem slow to comprehend, but should I go direct to transco or should I go to the local gas supplier?

Which one is least likely to bleed me dry, financially: transco if I go to them direct , or transco, called upon by a gas supplier I choose to approach?

Are you sure transco are the only people allowed to fit meters? Don't they license any of the gas supplies to do that?

J

[Ed Sirett]

When the cost of additional items like tanks or bunkers are added to the increased costs of the non-gas appliance gas looks by far the best of the non-electric options.

Electric heating is far from ideal, high running costs, lack of control. In fact for someone or a couple who is/are out all day, it may work out far simpler and cheaper to install electric convector heaters rather than storage units. With timers and thermostats, using normal full price juice selectively will likely work out much better than storage units filled with cheaper heat that is wasted during the day.

If mains gas is available even if it costs many hundred to setup then the only argument that would prevent you installing gas CH would be that you could not (yet) afford to do so. You will likely add twice its cost to the value of the flat.

[Mike]

Depends where you live. Many (becoming most with the latest regulations) require a bunded tank which triples the price. And once you add a flue it's nearer £800 for the boiler.

[Mike]

It is indeed a doddle. Then the hard bit starts, finding a BCO and commissioning guy willing to work together on getting the paperwork done. Each tries to put off as much onto the other as possible.

[Jimmy]

Are you recommending that I pay through the teeth to get a corgi plumber to do the gas plumbing work? Can the corgi plumber issue the certification you mentioned, or can that only be issued by a BCO?

What about if I sell the place more than 12 months after the work was done? Would a certificate still be necessary for selling purposes?

J

[BigWallop]

It is Transco that have the UK contract for all civil mains gas supply pipework and meter installations, but you need to call a gas supplier to have them contract you with the installation of anything you need to make a separate supply to your home. The gas supplier then gives the contract to Transco to make the installation and then the gas supplier charges you for the new supply of gas.

(ask your upstairs neighbour which gas supplier they use)

[Jimmy]

And the cost of installing the meter, yes? But does the supplier instruct the transco crew regarding what exactly to do? eg, to dig a trench to the other side of the road where the pipeline is, or simply take a feed from the cast iron riser already installed, to the other flat ages ago? If so, is it possible that different gas supplies would have different instructions to give the transco bods (and therefore wildly varying quotes)?

That's easy; I own both flats, so I already know who the gas supplier for the second flat is. But am I limited to that supplier when it comes to getting a meter installed in the second flat? Or can I get quotes from, say three suppliers and sign up with the one who'll do the installation the cheapest?

Thanks

J

[BigWallop]

The mains gas riser to the house used to supply the whole house as one when it was installed, so a tapping from the same riser, malleable iron, pipe will easily supply two individual meters in the same house.

I don't see why you asked for an alternative means of fuel on this house. You already have a gas mains supply to the house, and a supplier already giving you gas to the same property. Transco charge the gas suppliers a standard flat rate on materials for installing a metered supply to any property, and the gas supplier then charges you their price for having the work done.

You already have a gas supplier to the same house, so I think you'd be getting a discount for making the supply split to two different parts of the same house. You'd be paying them two sets of rental charges on the meters to the same house where you used pay for only one set of rental charges. I think they'd be over the moon at that deal.

[Jimmy]

I hope you are right about that. Someone was saying otherwise in an earlier thread. (Remember, they were talking about how each dwelling might need its own riser because transco are starting to pull plastic pipes through the cast iron risers or something)?

That last point is something I hadn't considered. Many thanks for the reassurance. I suppose I'll take the plunge and call the supplier.

How about getting a second electric meter put in for the second flat. Can a similar thing be done for that, (avoiding the need for trenches to be dug, etc)? At the moment,. the whole house has just one mains unit on the inside of the house on the ground floor.

J

[Frank Erskine]

Just out of interest, Transco does supply a few large users, such as Corus (ex British Steel), directly.

[BigWallop]

How is the flat being supplied with electricity just now?

You can have a sub mains supply taken from the existing head end. This entails only three Henley Blocks and one mains isolator switch to be installed so that both supplies are still taken through the original electricity supply system. The same applies to this as with the gas. The same supply was always used by the whole house anyway, so just separating the house in to two flats should be just like running the whole house as before.

A separate electricity meter must be fitted by the Leccy company contractors of course, but you can run a 25 mm Two Core SWA (Steel Wire Armoured) Cable yourself from the existing head end to where you want the new meter to be sited in the new flat. You can also install the Henley Blocks and a main

100 Amps rated isolator switch, it doesn't need to be fused because there is already a fuse on the existing main head end that it is all connecting to. The Leccy co. contractors will do the rest for you if everything passes their final tests.

You must already have the new flat wired for single stand alone operation, with its own consumer unit and 25 mm csa' (cross sectional area) Double Insulated cable tails ready for the connection to the new meter when it is installed. They will not connect the new flat to the new supply unless they can test all the wiring installation for proper operation. If they find any faults, and I mean even the slightest fault, with the wiring, they will not connect the new supply to the consumer unit. They will then charge you further call-out and labour costs for any other visits they have to make after any remedial work they say you have to do. So it's better to get it all done perfectly before you go calling them in to connect you up to a new supply.

Hope this helps you a bit.

[Jimmy]

I think, there is a cable going froma second master switch at the original mains unit, to a coin meter in the second flat. In fact, there must be because the second flat has a coin meter installed. And ther's aslo a box in the flat with an on-off switch and cirquit breakers inside. I did it all myself, years ago, but can't remember the finer details.

However I never really separated the two flats' circuits entirely. For example, the lighting for the whole house still runs from a fuse on the original box. The coin meters in the flats only controls the ring mains not the lighting.

I need to separate the cirquits properly now - bot the ring main and the lighting circuits.

I'll have to look up "head end" and "Henley block" tomorrow. Those terms don't ring a bell with me. ..but I think I'm following what youre saying.

Can't they just install the meter and let me (or a proper electrician working for me) connect it up to the cirquit after they've gone?

It certainly does. It's giving me hope about possibilities I didn't know existed. In fact I didn't have much of a clue about the subject. Thank you.

J

[John]

This is not neccessarily true. As you are now talking about seperate households each will be given a supply capable ("properly" not under overload conditions) of delivering 6m^3 per hour with only the permissible pressure drop i.e. not below incoming supply permissible limits. A pipe which used to give 6m^3 may not be able to give 12m^3 under these constraints. You should ask for a quote to have a supply of gas installed and go from there. Transco operate to engineering standards which are not negotiable.

[Jimmy]

Can you take a look at this photo of the thing. Yes, it's a bit of a pig's breakfast, but two of the switch boxes will be superfluous when I do the work. So they can be removed, restoring the setup to how it was whn originally installed by the 'lectric co.

Onto the photo, I have drawn labels A,, B, & C for easy reference.

C is the head end, I take it. But A, B, and C all have lead+wire seals on the cover screws, presumably meaning I'm not supposed to break the seals. Yes? After looking at the photo, do you still think I can run a SWA cable from the head end to the place where I want a new meter in the other flat?

What's happens if the Leccy Co comes along and finds a seal or two broken?

Cheers,

J