Ah sure, Michael's on fire tonight...

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

[Robin]

's the sort of silly non-science which really gets on my wick [effect].

[The Natural Philosopher]

It is extraordinarily well documented.

Too well documented for it to be passed off as 'pseudo science'

Like ball lightning, it seems to exist, and no one really knows what it means. Generally is held to be massive gas build up in the gut..but no satisfactory explantion is really available. The general symptoms are of an intense fire centred around the gut/torso area, that utterly consume the body often leaving just extremities, with everything else incinerated to a degree that indicates unbelieveably high temperatures.

[Andy Cap]

guess it comes under DIY cremation !

[Jethro]

Does anyone recall that DREADFUL QED programme, in the late 80s/early

90s, "explaining" SHC. I have never watched such patronising shit in my entire life. It was remade into an episode of "CSI", just to annoy me.

Why can't scientists just say "we don't know" ?

For me, the most interesting thing about SHC is the fact it seems to happen when a person is alone ... there are very few cases of it happening around witnesses. That said, there was a news story a few years back, about a schoolgirl (in the UK) who was walking down the corridor when her back just "burst into flames". ISTR she was badly injured. Loads of witnesses there ... IIRC it was suggested she had come from a cookery lesson, and somehow managed to pocket a few cubic metres of methane in her jumper - as if !

[Tim Downie]

>>> That's the sort of silly non-science which really gets on my wick >> [effect].

Um, didn't someone do some research burning a pig carcase wrapped in a blanket? I thought that the explanation was that the blanket (or clothes in the case of humans) acted as a wick allowing the body to burn it's own fat and in effect, turn you into a giant candle

It's pretty hard to imagine what kind of chemical reaction could cause spontaneous ignition in a human body. Far easier to believe that someone has passed out after drinking to much (or just died perhaps) whilst smoking and the cigarette end has provided the source of ignition.

Tim

[Huge]

>

Twaddle. He was found "near an open fire". Under the right circumstances people will burn quite well, especially if obese and well swaddled in clothing. There's nothing "spontaneous" about it - a cigarette or ember from the fire will do. It's been regularly demonstrated on TV.

[The Natural Philosopher]

a very very strange thing.

[Huge]

>>>>> That's the sort of silly non-science which really gets on my wick >>> [effect].

Yep. I was just trying to find the video on Youtube.

Precisely.

[Paul - xxx]

> > >

I think 'they' all agree that it isn't 'spontaneous' but that there needs to be an ignition source to start the candle ..

[Jethro]

That is a possibility of course - and has been demonstrated. However, one niggle is that in cases of *S*HC (we agree the HC can happen), the *bone* has been burned.

Even after 2 hours in a crematorium, human bones still remain, and need to be crushed mechanically. The pig wick-effect tests quietly forget this.

Again, *possible*. (Although it requires the victim be a smoker - and there are well documented cases where people *weren't*). But likely ? The human body is a smörgåsbord of chemicals reagents ... I find it entirely

*possible* that a freak reaction could result in combustion. ISTR the Apollo lunar landers had a fuel mix which would ignite on contact, to avoid the embarrassment of a flat battery stranding the astronauts.

Strange things happen everyday, which we can't explain. I don't see we need to invoke the theme to the Twilight Zone every time though.

[stuart noble]

In that case I should have burnt to a cinder by now.

[Rick Hughes]

cold is just God's way of telling you to burn more Catholics.

[Rick Hughes]

>>>>> That's the sort of silly non-science which really gets on my wick >>> [effect].

yep I remember that programme ... 'wick allowed very slow cold burning, very localized, and it tied in with fact that there was always a source of ignition in these cases .. open fire, cigarette etc.

[Roger Chapman]

The coroner referred to there almost always being an open fire or chimney near such events. Not sure how a closed chimney could influence events but back in the days when most of us had coal fires rather than central heating use of a fire-guard was recommended to prevent spitting coals setting the living room alight. We had at least one instance of carpet damage back in the 1950s which might have been a good deal worse had no one been in the room at the time it happened.

[Chris Holford]

The report said that the victim had diabetes; don't people with diabetes produce acetone or something similar? -that would certainly act as an accelerant if it was in sufficient quantity.

[polygonum]

Ketones, I think.

[Huge]

I find it much more likely that you're an ignorant idiot.

[Bob Eager]

the advanced stages of DKA...smell or anything. But perhaps I'll get another fire extinguisher .-)

[Weatherlawyer]

Yes and no.

It was dessicated pig with a cigarette type source. The pigs smouldered to ash more efficiently than a conventional fire would manage.

From wikipedia: Objections to natural explanations typically refer to the degree of burning of the body with respect to its surroundings. Indeed, one of the common markers of a case of SHC is that the body =97 or part of it =97 suffered an extraordinarily large degree of burning, with surroundings or lower limbs comparatively undamaged.

Pathologist Professor Grace Callagy noted in her post-mortem findings that Mr Faherty had suffered from Type 2 diabetes and hypertension but she concluded he had not died from heart failure.

Dr McLoughlin said he had consulted medical textbooks and carried out other research in an attempt to find an explanation.

He said he referred to a book written by forensic pathologist on spontaneous combustion and noted that such reported cases were almost always near an open fireplace or chimney.

So, dehydration and a good ventilation.

No mention of the position of the limbs. Hundred percent fraud journalism. If the writer of the article was honest they'd have done what I did and looked it up on the Wikipedia. And someone in the article did!

But... If the body spontaneously "burned away", how could anyone conclude anything about heart failure? And how would the burn affect the ceiling? Was she talking about smoke damage or genuine burn damage?