Advice please-window company

[Andrew Gabriel]

Ah, the ones with the red boot polish in them -- never tried them myself as I don't have any red boots.

[Mike Halmarack]

Nowt wrong with hoping. :)

-- Regards, Mike Halmarack

Drop the EGG to email me.

[Grunff]

I was hoping for enlightenment...

[Tony Bryer]

I haven't drawn plans for money for about 12 years now. But the conservatory plans were a nice earner while it lasted. Most went straight onto a flat wall and the plan was really for the erectors. They may have been 'made to measure' as far as the customer was concerned but they were all standard modules and after a few weeks you could draw the plans (pre-CAD days) on autopilot. I generally got £100-150 for 3 hours work in total, not bad in the late 1980's - though their best salesman reputedly earned £86K!

The boss of the firm wanted me to do more of their design work but I declined, telling him that they could have 1/3 of my time, no more: eggs in one basket and all that. He asked whether they were paying me enough - I agreed that the rate was very fair, and that it was nice 'clean' work - I agreed, in response to which he said I must be stupid to decline more of the same. When they went broke owing me £1,500 (and everyone else £300K) I was very glad I'd not been tempted to do more.

[Andy Hall]

It certainly wasn't a bad rate for that era, especially if there was little or no come-back.

I suppose that said salesman would have been earning around £150k at today's prices, but was probably on commission only or 20/80 split. If he was generating £3m for the company (not impossible) he will have earned every penny.

I suspect that that business (apart from the big guys who manufacture) is all about cash flow). Couple that with having to trim margins to win business and you have all the ingredients for going broke,

In that respect, the software business is attractive, isn't it :-)

[Andy Hall]

Yes and no. It's really the responsibility of senior management to create a culture of maximising business profitability. In most cases, for one reason or another, this implies having happy customers, whether it be for repeat business, recommendation or even just not having customers who won't pay.

Oh, come on, that's jaundiced. A business transaction should be beneficial for both parties. That means that the customer gets what he wants for a fair price and the supplier makes sufficient money to sustain his business and please his shareholders.

If customers have the attitude that they want the lowest price, come what may and that any profit on the part of the supplier constitutes them being ripped off, then the problem lies with the customer. It's not reasonable to expect a quality product or service *and* for the supplier not to make a good margin to be there to sustain that.

Everybody owns the world that they live in to a greater or a lesser extent. Generally the extent depends on their willingness tp participate and their understanding of the rules of the game.

[Mike]

[Andy Hall]

It's all relative ;-)

[Tony Bryer]

Commission only, basically 10%. I never found out the exact details but AIUI there was a list price (not to be confused with 'List Price' off which you give 50% discount ... but only if you sign tonight) and a floor price below which you could not go. If you sold at list you got 10%. If you could sell above list you got 10% of list and a much greater proportion of the excess. If you sold between the floor and list price you got an appropriately reduced commission.

[Mike Halmarack]

Maybe in the world of business school text books. My experience shows that currently, if a business offers a quality product at a reasonable price and with adequate support, this merely goes to prove that their market isn't being exploited to the max. Good business practice went down the drain with good banking practice, at about the same time.

When seen through your rose tinted safety glasses.

Customers are trained to 'expect' the lowest prices, in part by constantly being lambasted with the word 'FREE' in ten foot high letters. In this way customers are being conned from the outset.

Not really. The rules of the game are always complicated to a degree sufficient to place their practical understanding outside the comprehension of Joe Public. This is a trick used by governments and businesses alike. Yes, there are some individuals who by reason of wealth, skill or location can master the intricacies within certain fields. You may be one of them. If so you are an uncommon exception. And if I hadn't got a floor to varnish, I'd go into details right now. :)

-- Regards, Mike Halmarack

Drop the EGG to email me.

[Andy Hall]

My real world experience differs markedly from that. It's possible to achieve all of those ideals provided that the customer is willing to buy on issues in addition to price.

I disagree.

If anything, I would say that there is an improvement in banking practice in recent years.

- In the bad old days, the bank manager was a falsely exalted "professional" who held unreasonable power over customers such that they were made to feel they were beholden to him.

- Nowadays, the banks have at least realised that they are selling products and services and would like customers to buy them. A total reversal of roles.

- The clearing banks are being squeezed over the 3-5 day cheque clearance racket.

etc.

I have a personal bank manager who is pretty good and sorts out bureaucratic trivia such as the behaviour of the card companies during overseas travel etc. and is honest enough to tell me if there is a better product for my needs elsewhere. In return, he gets pieces of business from me when appropriate. He's consistently in the top 5% of performers for his bank, but undoubtedly if he ever left and joined another bank, most of his customers would go with him.

I'm pretty successful in what I do in business. A lot of it is based on long term relationships with customers (going back 20+ years in some cases) and providing a high standard of product and service.

That can be done for a fair price but not for a knock-down one.

The customer is only conning himself if he believes he can get something for nothing.

Personally, I avoid organisations that attempt to sell to me on the basis of price, because it means that they haven't understood my needs and wants and probably won't be able to sustain the level of service I require.

Sadly it seems that with many people they don't have to try too hard.

I've always thought of myself as an individual.