We've just bought our first house and we need to move some radiator pipes. I want to try and have a go at this myself before calling a professional.
I'm after some advice as to what type of pipe is best to use. I've read that plastic pipe is simpler to use as it avoids the tricky soldering of copper pipes.
So I was thinking of using plastic piping for under the floor boards and then just connecting copper pipes for the upshoots to the radiators.
Does this sound like a good idea? Are plastic pipes to way to go? And does anyone know any good websites with plumbing guides?
You can use compression joints with copper pipes that are made simply with a couple of spanners. If you are really opposed to soldering (although its not that hard and certainly not "tricky"!) then these are just as good, albeit a tad more expensive.
Actually, doing soldered plumbing in copper is not very difficult at all. The main thing is that everything needs to be drained and dry and very importantly, cleaned with steel wool etc., before fluxing and heating with a blow torch. You can get solder ring fittings where the solder needed is already there = heat and you are done. You do need to avoid disturbing the joint for a few seconds to make sure that the solder doesn't move and result in a dry point, which can leak.
An alternative copper approach is with compression joints. A bit more expensive than copper, and you need a couple of wrenches, but quick and good results.
Plastic is also easy to work with. If you use it for heating, it does need to be supported in more places than copper because it will sag otherwise. You can push copper tubes into the fittings for plastic.
It is very important when using plastic fittings to have the ends of the tube square and burr free. You can damage the fitting otherwise and end up with water everywhere.
For cutting copper, a tubing cutter is a really good idea. These clamp on to the tube and you rotate them, gradually doing up a knob which causes a sharp wheel to slice into the copper. The result is a square cut with a slightly rounded outside at the end. It will fit easily into a plastic fitting or a copper or brass one.
For the plastic, a proper slicing cutter is important. These are a simple tool like a set of shears and simply slice cleanly through the tube, square.
For plastic plumbing, have a look on the John Guest web site. They have a variety of application notes.
Plastic is easy enough, but there are a few things to watch. Make sure you use pipe inserts in the end of the pipe at each join. Cut the pipe square using a plastic pipe cutting tool designed for the job.
Yup, that is a common solution. Use can use pushfit fittings for everything if you want. Again remember to get a pipe cutter for the copper and *do not* use a hacksaw to cut it when using pushfit (the sharp edges left on the pipe will damage the water sealing 'O' ring in the fitting and it will leak.
Just want to double check something, so every time i make a cut of the plastic pipe, I need to insert a pipe insert before connecting to the 90 degree angle or T joint etc? Does this help stop the pipe from collapsing slightly?
The thing that worries me about using copper pipes is not being able to heat the joint all the way around due to confined spaces under the floor boards.
Yes. The inserts are very cheap, but must not be forgotten.
Yes.
That isn't a problem. The copper conducts heat very well and you don't need to heat behind. The main issues with soldering are making sure all metalwork has been properly scrubbed with wirewool/abrasive paper, ensuring that there is no water in the pipework which will prevent a good join, and ensuring you don't set fire to anything. I always have a proper fire extinguisher with me, such as a 6kg ABC powder, or a 2kg CO2.
However, in concealed locations, plastic pipe is far easier to work with. You can thread it along joists and feed it into holes etc, much more easily than copper. You need far fewer joins and don't need to make precise bends with a pipe bender. I only use copper when on show, or when rigidity is important, such as where pumps and valves are being held. You usually must use copper within a certain distance of a boiler, too. This will be stated in the manufacturer's instructions.
I tend not to use push fit much with plastic. I find compression joints to be easier (it is easy not to push the pipe in far enough with push fit when in tight spots) and, more importantly, they are a fraction of the price.
If you *do* use plastic pipe, make sure that it is barrier type to stop any air from getting in. Plasic pipe is fine for vertical runs where it doesn't show. If you use it for horizontal runs, you really need to support it all the way on a plank of wood. Otherwise it will sag and encourage air locks.
My preference would be to use copper pipe. If you're not comfortable with soldering or compression joints, use copper push-fit like
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are easy to work with, and can be dismantled (using the correct release tool) if desired. If you need to put them where they show, they look much better than plastic pushfit fittings.
================= Get a piece of thin metal about 12" x 8" and bend it to a curve so that it fits about 3" behind the joint you're soldering. This will protect the surrounding area and will also reflect the heat of the blowlamp back onto the back of the joint. Reflecting the heat back is less important than protecting the surrounding area from accidental damage.
Make sure that the bit of metal is soft enough to bend by hand (so that you can adjust for different situations) but strong enough to keep its shape when in use.
If space is limited, then plastic is the way to go. I haven't soldered a joint in ages. Push-fit is just so quick although I still use copper pipe with it.
Plastic pipe can also be more easily fed under the floorboards, without having to take up so many as to get a good length of copper in.
To answer your question, yes, always use the pipe inserts with plastic pipe to strengthen it and stop it collapsing, as you say. Not necessary with copper pipe into the plastic fitting though.
If you are going to do lots of this then definitely buy a proper pipe slice for the copper and snips for the plastic pipe.
I've just done a full central heating job and only used copper for the radiator legs and a short run near the boiler. 15mm Hep2o elbow something like £1 each I would guess and two pushes and the jobs done.
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