Aaargh! I can't turn my water off!

[Peter Ashby]

Feeling frustrated. Last night at 10:05 the toilet siphon broke unreservedly. So, the wife dropped me at B&Q to pick up a new one this morning and I walked home. So far so good. Because our cistern sits directly on the toilet there is no connecting pipe so I have to remove the cistern to get old siphone off. So I go up into the attic and turn the gate valve on the pipe emananting from the cold tank, come back down check sink tap, water gushing, blast. Go up and down fiddling with it, tracing pipes, reconfirming the system is how I thought. Conclude valve is bust.

So I go out to the pavement and open the mains valve cover, not only is the hole full of dirly water but I can't feel anything at full stretch. Conclude I need a T-bar, blast.

I notice that the pipe to the cistern has what could be a tap or might be a non return valve, it has a screw so I turn it but it only turns a

1/4 turn and does nothing. Blast again.

I vaguely remember that under the floor downstairs where the services come in there is a tap. But that means emptying the small understairs cupboard. So I decide to leave it till Saturday, we can use a bucke to flush till then.

So a question, if I turn the water off at the incoming main, will I have to drain the tank before the water stops?

Another one, when I have the water off is it worth replacing that gate valve? I'm assuming that having been fitted it should be fairly straightforward to drop a new one in?

I'm thinking about having to go to freezer pack, I'm that desperate. Off to work now, feeling knackered already.

Peter

[Elessar]

Can't you just tie up the float on the cold water tank valve and run the bath cold tap until the tank is empty?

-- LSR

[Dave]

Could the tap you're trying be on the rising main and therfore unaffected by the tank? You might find the loo is on the rising main too, in which case shutting off the mains is the best way unless you have a local isolating valve - see below.

That sounds like a local isolating valve - are you sure it doesn't shut off the water? These things sometimes don't fully shut off if you turn them through the full 90 degrees - have a fiddle.

Could you tie up the ball valve and drain the tank by opening the taps?

If it turns out to be faulty, then yes - it'll be relativly easy to replace it.

:-)

Dave

[Peter Andrews]

Buy a "Drayton Drain Easy Kit" (about £5, IIRC)this consists of two tapered rubber bungs. It's designed for CH mtce, but is great for plugging the outlets of cold tanks, saves draining and does away with the need to touch 'old/stuck/leaky' gate and isolating valves.

Peter

[Set Square]

It's not at all clear from your post whether the cistern is fed from the cold header tank or from the rising main. It's very important to establish this - otherwise you'll be turning off the wrong thing!

Are you sure that the 1/4 turn service valve doesn't work? That's your best bet if you can make it work - and it then doesn't matter where the feed comes from. To get the 'off' position, the screwdriver slot must be exactly at right-angles to the water flow direction - turn it too far and it'll be on again!

[Rob Morley]

Stick a carrot in the pipe inside the tank.

[Mike Dodd]

Damn, I read the OP and hoped that I'd get an early answer in. Here's expecting a "Doh!" reply sometime soon.

(Unless the bog is fed from the rising main)

[Peter Ashby]

That thought did occur except if the pipe emanating from the header tank supplies something I haven't found it. Turning the gate valve allows cold water to flow from: cistern, bathroom sink, bath, kitchen sink (which includes washing machine/outside tap) which leaves no candidates (boiler is supplied through a different pipe). Add to this that I had just filled the bucket from the bath tap before ascending to turn the tap and I could hear the water entering the header tank. So I am pretty convinced the gate valve is faulty.

Unfortunately it is heavily painted and someone has previously fiddled and the screw is knackered. I am considering taking the opportunity to replace it with a tap. The thing is the incoming water enters the cistern from below which is why I suspect it to be a non-return valve, in which case I should include one. Are combined non-return and tap units available? I feel confident enough about taking things out and replacing but I don't have pipe spreaders or any other plumbing specific tools (wood is more my thing).

I could, being an uninsulated roof in Scotland said tank is heavily wrapped up and as such I am loathe to interfere unless forced to do so.

I shall endeavour to find one then, thanks.

Peter

[Peter Ashby]

As I explained to Dave it supplies the bath tap and doesn't stop that one. I have also observed in the past that the continuation of that pipe runs under bath and disappears under the floorboards heading in the direction of the sink and cistern. Not completely conclusive but it would be a strange system that supplies mains to the cistern but not the bath. Doesn't seem high enough pressure. Our house back in NZ had mains water, I remember that pressure.....

It was at 90 degrees and water flowed freely, I turned so it aligned and nothing. Unfortunately the area is heavily painted and the screw slot is near knackered. Both of which imply to me a replacement might be an idea while the water is off.

Of course after sending my original post and walking out the front door the two small access hatches I have walked past every day.... Will investigate might be easier than clearing the cupboard and crawling around under the floor.

Peter

[Peter Ashby]

Wouldn't a parsnip be more robust?

Peter

[mike ring]

[e-mail] (Peter Ashby) wrote in news:1gy9q5k.1gzoj7ih0c3t4N% [e-mail]:

A carrot's more the right diameter and tapered.

But it could break off.

A set of plugs would be better.

And I'd suggest replacing the isolating valve, *and* any gatevalves, stopcocks etc you find with fullbore lever ballvalves - far superior

mike

[Peter Ashby]

I think I know what you mean and see your point. I will keep my eyes open, thanks.

Peter

[etillet]

Cold feed to shower?

[Peter Ashby]

Nope shower/bath taps one and the same.

Peter