A really bad piece of work.

[Andy Burns]

That seems at odds with this

"UKWBF listed, used and approved by British Gas"

That's certainly my choice these days.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

There is no way you'll stop cowboy builders by legislation. The meja love to go on about DIY - but the vast majority of such problems are not DIY but done by someone being paid for the work.

The reason is pretty simple - few would choose to live in a place where they know there's a possibility of a gas leak, etc. The cowboy builder walks away after making the mess.

[BigWallop]

The bit that is getting me, is that all the correct parts are there, but in the wrong place and order. How and why? :-)

[John Rumm]

nailed securely to a gas pipe probably...

[Tim S]

YAPH coughed up some electrons that declared:

Cool - thanks for that. I'd read varying descriptions of whether Fluxite was OK or not, but nothing definitive. The only reason I thought of it was I still use it with 60/40 wet work and I'm fairly sure I'd seen it used with gas in the 70's.

But I can see that a heat activated flux is sure not to cause problems.

Cheers

Tim

[Dave Plowman (News)]

It's interesting that some seem to have invented the everlasting chemical reaction? Usually any residual corrosion caused by excess flux will come to an end long before it eats through the pipe. Even extremely corrosive active flux types only used on water pipes don't seem to etch in very far if not wiped off. Over many many years.

[Tim S]

YAPH coughed up some electrons that declared:

Please do tell :)

My uneducated list would be:

a) The wrong way round hose, obviously

b) The unsecured pipe at the other end as previously mentioned

c) But what's c? Is it that the weight of the gas hose will have a tendency to undo the connection on the back of the cooker; or the other end being jointed with what looks like hemp and green compound?

Looking forward to finding out :)

Cheers

Tim

[Andy Burns]

No isolating valve?

[John Rumm]

"Must" or "preferred"? I have always used Fry metals Powerflow which claims to be suitable for Gas[1], but I was not aware of that being heat activated particularly - its mildly acidic and certainly cleans copper on contact. (the residue if left on the outside of a pipe will usually encourage verdigris, but does not seem to etch or corrode the copper even after time).

BES description is "Paste flux for copper and brass fittings for water, heating and gas services. British Gas plc, WRc plc approved."

Never really found that necessary in other circumstances either. Perhaps because I keep my spare fittings nice and clean in a box or bag...

I assume that Tim probably meant 40/60 (ish) rather than 60/40 eutectic.

(I did have to use electronics solder once in an emergency to repair a hot water connection to a basin - its surprising how much 26 AWG you need for a pipe joint compared to the more typical gauges intended for plumbing)

[Ed Sirett]

Thatis a mattwer of how you interpret the phrase in the regs that says

"[the sleeving] must be of a material capable of carrying gas".

A strict interpretation would be that the sleeve must be steel or copper. A looser interpretation would be that the sleeve must be a material that COULD carry gas but MIGHT not be used for that purpose.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Fluxite do make a flux suitable for gas work. Whether it's the same formulation as earlier, I dunno. But 'old' Fluxite didn't cause noticeable corrosion if left on copper anyway - at least nothing like EverFlux, etc.

[Ed Sirett]

In the repair I turned it 90 degrees and fixed a block behind it and screwed the plate through the block to the wall.

[Heliotrope Smith]

No.

When fitted correctly then the female bayonet fitting is the gas isolating valve.

[Ed Sirett]

By the book, (one of) the kitchen fitters is/are meant to have a CORGI membership.

If the house was rented than annual inspections are mandatory. It would almost certainly have been picked up.

If we come across stuff like this we have procedures to follow if we can't fix things there and then.

Finally for really serious faults like this. We are required to report them to the HSE who will try to find out who and stop them before someone else does/might get hurt.

Isn't it lucky that the self seal plunger wasn't damaged.

yes because if it had failed to work the cooker would have remained working until the end fell out.

[Ed Sirett]

Because all the joints are 1/2" BSP. And because the original installed did not know the right order.

I had a one fitting over [1] after correcting it all, (including removing the water PTFE tape).

The order I left them in was:

1) Wall plate elbow now secured to the wall. 2) The bayonet socket (open end downwards). 3) The hose, unstrained U-shape. 4) The 1/2" Barrel. 5) The 1/2" Taper male to internal flat face coupling.

I used Hawk White to seal everything.

[1] A 1/2" male iron to 15mm compression elbow being used as a 1/2" male- male elbow.

[Alan]

In message , BigWallop wrote

Have you considered it's the price charged by a Corgi or Part P registered companies that is causing the problem in the first place? When the cost of registration is so high it leaves plenty of scope for the cowboys[1] to easily undercut the price.

More regulation will not stop the problem. It only works when _everybody_ is prepared to obey the rules. Offer someone a cheaper price, cash in hand, no questions asked and there will be a lot of takers.

Programs like rouge traders only go to prove that the threat of being caught out is no deterrent. They often have the same people trading under different names and even when it results in a prosecution the presenters proudly state their actions resulted in the cowboy getting a few hour of community service.

[1] According to the Corgi site, even their officially registered members should be treated as cowboys if the are doing work 'off the book' for friends and relatives.

[John Rumm]

It should have had - but as pictured it only has the wall mounting elbow (that the bayonet fitting would normally screw into) on the pipe end (and even that is rotated 90 degrees such that it could not be screwed to the wall). Our ingenious fitter has been rather creative and managed to fit the hose back to front, with the supposedly wall mounted bayonet connector on the cooker end. This means the automatic valve in the female bit of bayonet connector that would normally prevent the escape of gas from the pipe when the hose is removed, now gets removed with the cooker - leaving a flexi pipe connected direct to the house gas supply, with no way of turning it off (other than at the meter).

Yup

The other (non bayonet) end usually screws in quite nicely without the need for any titting about ;-)

(The cooker will normally have a 1/2" BSP female connection that the matching taper end thread of the hose would screw into - it might be that the shiney pipe with what lookes like a male end has also been added by the creative installer to allow clearance for the bayonet connector!)

[Tim S]

John Rumm coughed up some electrons that declared:

Personally I can't see many standard fluxes eating right through dry copper pipe (it's quite thick) in any reasonable timescale...

but...

The reason I asked, is that, if I did solder a gas pipe, I'd rather do it by the book, even if the book is a bit *nal :)

Erm, yes. Silly typo. Next time I'll just say "leaded plumbing solder", as opposed to unleaded.

Cheers

Tim

[Tim S]

YAPH coughed up some electrons that declared:

Silly question: the sleeving isn't there to carry gas, but rather to protect the pipe surely?

Cheers

Tim

[John Rumm]

Gosh, you sound just like a NuLabia cabinet minister ;-)

Well think through the implications of that. Have the Part P regulations make electrical systems safer? The *rise* in deaths from electrocution that has followed would suggest not.

Remember also that you can't legislate against cowboys - who almost by definition don't take any notice of legislation anyway.