A dose of realism, please

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Had the boiler service man (small local guy, not BGas) 'round the other day to service the boiler. He said that the heat exchanger was "getting thin in places" and would start to leak "within the year". Given that the boiler concerned is about 20 years old he may be right.
I asked him what a replacement would cost. He said "about GBP1,100 installed". I nearly fell over with shock. That much for a 12kw heating-only boiler ?
He then went on to explain that the local council is stupid enough to subsidize boiler replacements to the tune of GBP200 and another 150 for upgrading "controls", so he suggested replacing the (perfectly serviceable and newish) thermostat/programmer with another unit for GBP30 and to pocket the difference of GBP120 in addition to the GBP200, bringing the cost down to GBP780. (!)
My way of looking at it is this:
Boiler, 12kw: GBP350, tops. Installation: Free, I can do that myself. Two water pipes, a gas pipe, a flue, and a control circuit, how hard can it be ? Professional commissioning and testing for leaks, just in case: GBP50 Total GBP400.
I think he was trying it on AND inflating the price by the amount of subsidy to boot. Opinions please - what IS a realistic price for this sort of thing ?
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Medallion Man wrote:

Not sure - I would have thought that this is at the lower end of the price range - Can you still get just 12kw these days? I would have thought not. You might also want to think about supplying your hot water with the new boiler as well while you are at it.

Are you CORGI registered? If not, you are forbidden from installing gas appliances - it's a criminal offence to do so. You HAVE to employ the services of a qualified gas man, I'm afraid.

1100 for a new boiler - installed - isn't that bad. BG would try and charge you twice this amount.
RM
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There's a number of modern boilers listed at SEDBUK that go down to below 12kw. For example the Potterton Promax 15HE, ecoMAX 613/2e, ecoMAX 618/2e. In fact a lot of the modern modulating boilers can go down to comfortably below 12kw.

Once again the urban myth strikes rears its ugly head. It is not illegal to diy your own gas installation as long as you are "competant". However, you cannot do installations for reward or for other people without being CORGI registered. However you may very well require building regs approval for the new boiler. Had to laugh at the B & Q website where it states with regard to installing a Biasi Combi that "Please note that this product must be fitted by a CORGI registered electrician". Presumably they'd recommend an NICEIC gas fitter for a consumer unit change :^)

You could buy a Keston Celsius 25 (7kw - 25kw) for less than 750, and that comes with integral pump, stainless steel heat exchanger (5 yr guarantee), is a high efficiency condensing boiler suitable for both vented and sealed systems. Would require very little effort to fit. And B & Q stock both Biasi and Ravenheat boilers starting at around 400.
hth Clive
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Clive Summerfield wrote:

Is there any reference that you have for this assertion? I wouldn't want to touch any of this stuff with a bargepole unless I am CERTAIN that it is not illegal.
RM
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Reestit Mutton wrote:

It isn't illegal. Your initial statement was totally incorrect.
--
Grunff


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Grunff wrote:

Yes, I got that the first time around - I would just like to be pointed at a reference for whatever regulations exist that could, in effect, confirm that it is legal under certain conditions.
RM
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From the HSE website: http://tinyurl.com/sv23 . Also the 1998 Statutory Instrument from HMSO: http://tinyurl.com/sv2d , specifically Part B "Qualification and Supervision".
Cheers Clive
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Clive Summerfield wrote:

Thanx Clive.
RM
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Not regs, but:
http://www.corgi-gas-safety.com/section_gas_law/the_law.asp
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Ben Blaukopf wrote:

Thanx Ben.
RM
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You're asking for the impossible, it's *you* that needs to point at regulations that say it *is* illegal.
Can you prove, for example, that it isn't illegal to breathe? Where's the statute that says it's legal?
--
Chris Green ( snipped-for-privacy@x-1.net)

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snipped-for-privacy@isbd.co.uk wrote:

I've already acknowledged that I could well be in the wrong here - I just want confirmation.
If there are regulations saying what is required if you fit it yourself (i.e. you do not have CORGI exemption) then these imply that it is legal with conditions.
RM
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... but what I'm saying is that unless there is something that specifically says it's illegal then by default you're allowed to do it. There may not be anything written down.
--
Chris Green ( snipped-for-privacy@x-1.net)

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wrote:

Notice the words "could be dangerous" and "likely to be illegal" in the CORGI rhetoric.
This stops short of saying "is dangerous" and is "illegal" because the reality is that it is not illegal provided that you are competent and provided the work is for yourself and not as a business.
CORGI are reasonably warning that if an installation is not done competently then it will be illegal because the law does require competence. However, the Statutory Instrument (GSIUR) does not specify what competent means in the general sense and it does not specify qualifications or training that one must have.
The Gas Safety (INstallation and Use) Regulations 1998 do state that in the business context that a fitter or business must be a member of "a class of persons" defined by the HSE for the purpose. Currently, the HSE defines that to be CORGI. If you look at gas safety on the HSE web site you will see that this whole area was reviewed about a year ago and the conclusion was that DIY gas work could not be prevented anyway and that there was no evidence that it was linked to any mishaps.
The definitive answer is in
http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si1998/19982451.htm
This is the law of the land, pure and simple..
.andy
To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
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Actually, I have no issue with the notices in B&Q and the like telling you you it's illegal, because unless someone actually knows what the situation is, that's a perfectly good misapprehension for them to be under. If they take the trouble to find out what the real situation is, then they probably also take the trouble to find out how to do the job properly too.
--
Andrew Gabriel

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It is not an assertion, it's fact.
Read what he said

But that's not what you said before is it ?
--
geoff

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geoff wrote:

Please read what I have said in this thread before jumping down my throat.
I acknowledged that I could have been wrong but, understandably, I wanted to be assured of the *exact* position - until I see the basis of the opinion, it is only sensible to treat it as an assertion and not necessarily as fact. Having seen the basis of Clive's opinion I have since thanked him and I ma happy to accept it as fact.
RM
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You might like to check up on your misinformation before you make more of a fool of yourself. Just about everyone in this newsgroup knows exactly what the law in this area is, except you it seems.
--
Andrew Gabriel

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Dear, oh dear. CORGI would certainly like you to think so. However, it is certainly permitted to do the job yourself, provided you have the skills to do so. You are, however, required to submit a building notice to the local council to comply with Part L. In any case, the OP was proposing that final commissioning was done by a CORGI anyway, so could skip the building notice and take advantage of the CORGI exemption.
Christian.
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If you don't know what you're talking about (as it would seem you don't) ... don't post
--
geoff

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