A bit OT: Water supply responsibility

[Chris Hogg]

My neighbour has a smallholding of a few fields. The mains water supply crosses those fields. A secondary pipe is teed off this supply, then divides and one leg goes to their house, the other leg goes under our boundary wall to our house. The secondary pipe has sprung a leak on my neighbour's property. The leak is before both my neighbour's and our stopcocks. But it's not obvious whether the leak is on my neighbour's leg, our leg or the common feed, because we don't know the precise pipe layout to the nearest foot. The water supply people have told my neighbour it's his responsibility, although in the past they have repaired other leaks to the main supply pipe on his property. I've a feeling they have the secondary pipe designated as a 'private pipe' or some-such on their maps. AIUI many decades ago it was part of a private supply, before the water company put mains water into the area.

Main supply ____________________________________________ | | | secondary pipe | | | | < neighbours our house | X = stopcock my boundary wall < represents only a few feet, hence our uncertainty as to which < of our pipes is actually leaking. But that's not relevant IMO. <

But AIUI, the water company is responsible for the supply pipe up to the stopcock, whether that stopcock is out in the public road or some distance onto the owner's property, and surely they can't just absolve themselves of that responsibility simply because that's how they've got it shown on their maps. Is there an 'official' web site that gives chapter and verse on the division of responsibility between the householder and the water company for the supply pipe?

[Cod Roe]

doesn't help much, as it sits on the fence by prefixing "Normally".

[Robin]

> It doesn't help much, as it sits on the fence by prefixing "Normally". And is worse as it includes:

"Modern houses have an independent water supply pipe into the property, which is the householder's responsibility. In older properties there may be a shared supply pipe for one or more other houses. Responsibility for the supply pipe is shared between householders."

and also

"Where a supply pipe is shared householders may share responsibility with their neighbours for the costs of repairs. For example, in the diagram for a repair in the pipe running past house D, the responsibility for making repairs would probably be shared with houses E and F. Householders should check the deeds of their property to establish responsibility."

(We thought we were in this boat until Thames found the missing communication pipe.)

[Nightjar]

The Ofwat site gives some information, but, if it is anything like sewers, you won't find any well defined chapter and verse, as much depends upon the history and age of the property and services.

at that, I would say that you and your neighbour are probably jointly responsible from the main up to where the pipe splits and you are individually responsible for the pipes leading to our properties from there.

From a practical viewpoint, the pipe is probably reaching the end of its useful life, so it may be cheaper in the long run to mole in new pipes now, rather than keep patching bits as they fail.

Colin Bignell

[Roger Mills]

Have you tried to get the water board to fix it? After all, it's *their* water which is being lost, since the leak is presumably on their side of any meter which you or your neighbour might have. Would fixing it help them to meet some government-imposed target or other?

What happens if it's *not* fixed? Will you end up with an unwanted lake, or is your supply being restricted because of it?

[Chris Hogg]

Thanks for the replies and the pointers to Ofwat, although in the example they give (the houses A - D), the suggested leaks are all in the supply pipe on the consumer side of the big X in the road, which I assume is the stop tap, and not in the communication pipe, as they call it. But there are weasel words in there, as CR points out, so it's not definitive and may allow the water board to deny responsibility in certain circumstances.

In reply to RM, yes, the water board has been contacted and they sent a man to look at it who said it was my neighbour's responsibility. I assume this was a verbal comment. My neighbour was going to have another go at them to try and get a better response. So far, we've see no obvious deterioration in our supply, and as you say, it's the water board's water and in their interests to get it fixed. It's not a trivial leak, either. Probably equivalent to a tap running continuously.

At the moment it's my neighbour's problem, but should that change I wanted to see what the 'official' position might be. I shall await developments.

[Dave Liquorice]

Agreed about the weasel words but as the stop tap is definately their responsibilty I'd argue that any pipe work from the main to the stop tap, aka the "communication pipe" is also their responsibilty. The weasel words come in with the boundary and them wanting to use that, not the stop tap as a demarcation point. Is the main under public land or private?

If we ever get a leak between our stop tap and us I can see a similar, if reversed, argument as the stop tap is 20 odd yards down the public highway and only about 2 yards of the supply pipe are our side of the boundary...

[Chris Hogg]

The main is under private land owned by my neighbour, as is the communication pipe. But a couple of leaks on the main in recent years have been fixed by the water board without hesitation.

[Dave Liquorice]

Perhaps that is something to remind them of. If they are prepared to repair the main under private land they should also be prepared to repair the communication pipe from the same main up to and including the stop tap, which is definately their responsibilty, under private land.

[Tim Lamb]

Umm... Private supplies exist. Often in rural locations where the cost of extending the company main was too high and the work undertaken by private contractors on behalf of the landowners.

We have such a set up here. The 3" steel main reaches the boundary of what (in 1960 or so) was farmland. The existing farmhouse and an outlying private dwelling relied on pumped borehole supplies.

Three owners got together and funded the extension which was primarily in 1" black Butyl? plastic pipe. The actual responsibility for repairs remains with the owners of the land although the supply is only metered at the property boundaries. In theory, the common length should be jointly funded.

Things got a bit tricky when we built a new house for my sister as the water Co. wanted to use this as an opportunity to extend their main. Current charge is around £100/m! We argued that the existing supply would be adequate and they backed down when we gave an undertaking to pay for the extension if ever the house was sold.

regards

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[Chris Hogg]

Oh dear! That sounds like it's what we might have. I'll keep my head down until my neighbour knocks on the door and asks for a contribution!

[Tim Lamb]

In message , Chris Hogg writes

It may not be a huge outlay.

The water company will be able to recommend a local contractor to find the leak and carry out a repair.

The last one here was £80 cash including the supply of fittings.

regards

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