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============================== Another silly comment requiring no reply because Roger has 'killfiled' me.

Cic.

Reply to
Cicero
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============================== A final demonstration of Roger's ability to use his vivid imagination to explain the malicious attitude of 'overtakees'.

Cic.

Cic.

Reply to
Cicero

The message from "dennis@home" contains these words:

So you did. Your later message in which you accused Bob or John (or both) of mistaking closing the door for merely accelerating away from a corner was at such variance with the previous remark that I didn't associate you with it. However quoting what is effectively an extract from the Highway Code is hardly an original remark that you can claim credit for.

In which case you have no right to try and impose your opinion on someone else who may well have a more powerful car anyway and can safely take advantage of shorter overtaking windows than you can even if we assume your judgement is sound in that particular instance. Not that I would pillory you on that issue. Caution is always a good trait in a driver provided it is not taken to absurd lengths.

You shouldn't be that close to the vehicle in front. If the 2 second rule is deemed appropriate for relatively safe motorways at least as much is surely warranted for the much more dangerous single carriageways. Even at 30 mph that is about 3 cars lengths (or over 4 if you happen to be driving a BMC Mini).

You really are. There is me saying that all too many drivers drive too close to the vehicle in front in order to block being overtaken and there you are proving there is at least one who is not ashamed to admit it.

Reply to
Roger

The message from Cicero contains these words:

And totally out of order.

Courtesy of Google:

**********************************

=============================== The situation you describe is a direct consequence of a general obsession with speed. People in the queue know that if they attempt to overtake they are quite likely to meet something coming the other way travelling at high speed - possibly somebody ignoring the speed limit because they're a 'good' driver.

*********************************

An obnoxious rant that really has no bearing on the situation described.

So you suffer from selective amnesia as well. David had already pointed out how incongruous that was when read in isolation.

You have to read my words in conjunction with your nonsense about people who won't overtake in the situation described. Now I appreciate that you have even less facility with words (rather ironic given your pseudonym) than I do but the words you now complain about are neither a description nor a situation.

An as for "some arbitrary target speed" what nonsense. I aim to drive well within the limits of myself, my car, the road conditions and the other traffic (and for that matter not grossly in excess of the speed limits). That is not being arbitrary. Now speed limits they are arbitrary.

It is not in my nature to hang about but I am rarely actually in need of meeting some deadline and if I am I allow myself plenty of time. I don't actually hurry.

Ignorant oaf.

Now who is it that has the vivid imagination? You don't appear to have much of a clue about anything in the real world.

You haven't really told me anything except that you are prepared to twist what has been said to score a point without any concern for the truth of the matter.

Feel free to respond. You won't be in my killfile for a few days yet and in any event there may be others who want to see your response to my question asking what is dangerous with the situation I described.

Reply to
Roger

The message from Cicero contains these words:

I haven't yet.

Your childish responses belie your great antiquity.

Reply to
Roger

The message from Cicero contains these words:

Oh so you can find an answer even though you think I have kill filed you. All I am asking is for you not to take my word for it but to actually go out into the real world and observe for yourself.

Reply to
Roger

44 ft/sec is 30 mph. That makes it 88ft for 2 seconds or about five/six car lengths. So you obviously drive too close. Did you always make these mistakes or are you past it? ;-)
Reply to
dennis

Before the 'Only a fool breaks the two second rule' advise the mantra was 'one car length (spacing) for every ten miles per hour'

Reply to
Brian Sharrock

|>> You shouldn't be that close to the vehicle in front. If the 2 second |>> rule is deemed appropriate for relatively safe motorways at least as |>> much is surely warranted for the much more dangerous single |>> carriageways. Even at 30 mph that is about 3 cars lengths (or over 4 if |>> you happen to be driving a BMC Mini). |>

|> 44 ft/sec is 30 mph. |> That makes it 88ft for 2 seconds or about five/six car lengths. |> So you obviously drive too close. |> Did you always make these mistakes or are you past it? ;-) |>

|>

|Before the 'Only a fool breaks the two second rule' advise |the mantra was 'one car length (spacing) for every ten miles per hour'

Rules should be based on *constants* Seconds are constant and well defined, also easy to estimate when driving "one thousand, two thousand, ... (first set your count speed against your watch when not driving) Car lengths are very variable from Smart cars to Jaguars :-(

Reply to
Dave Fawthrop

The message from "dennis@home" contains these words:

Seems I am past completing simple calculations. 44 feet is of course some 3 cars lengths. I never got round to doubling it.

Reply to
Roger

The message from "Brian Sharrock" contains these words:

Which I had long since forgotten but it might be a pointer to why I didn't see my mistake. My subconscious still remembered even if I didn't.

FWIW I think the 2 second rule is better (and not only because it suggests leaving more room) because it is the same for all drivers. There is no reason why a Mini driver should be expected to leave only half the space expected in front of the largest cars.

These days the learner driver is expected to know the stopping distances shown in the Highway Code off by heart which seems to me next to pointless. One doesn't (at least I don't) translate distances I see into units and I am pretty sure I can estimate the distance I require to stop on the ground much more accurately than I could put a figure to the distance even with time to think about it.

Much better to teach new drivers why it is that thinking distance doubles as the speed doubles but the actual braking distance quadruples.

FWIW the figures for stopping distance which AFAICT haven't been significantly revised since they were first published were based on one foot per mph for thinking distance and two thirds g for deceleration. There were only the smallest of tweaks to adjust to the shift to metric. The thinking time works out as just under 1.5 seconds but that would have been subordinate to the nice round figure of one for one. I wonder if they bothered to do any tests at all. At least they have done away with the nonsense of "shortest stopping distances" and now refer to "typical".

Given the mistake I made in my previous calculation it might be a good idea for someone who considers themselves a competent mathematician to check my figures. :-)

Reply to
Roger

Hey!. In your confusion you're beating the messenger with the stick! I never said that I agreed with the 'car length' rule I merely reported its existence!

FWIW, I think that there is a fundamental problem with people's intuitive understanding of distances and speeds in the UK (and Anglophone countries). Lessee; a car is advertised as accelerating 0~60 mph in x seconds .... the manual says it will 'go' up to 45 mph in 3rd gear .... the speed limit is

40mph ..... yet most drivers don't know how may feet it requires to brake and stop; _most_ drivers don't appear to understand at what limit of visibility they should display foglights; ... nor how many seconds it'll take them to clear a junction. In other words the taught 'distance' measurements are in miles (and miles per hour) whereas most encounters present themselves in feet and seconds. Compare; "you are travelling at 60mph what is the stopping distance?" to "you are travelling at 880 feet per second , how many seconds to stop?"
Reply to
Brian Sharrock

|> |>> You shouldn't be that close to the vehicle in front. If the 2 second |> |>> rule is deemed appropriate for relatively safe motorways at least as |> |>> much is surely warranted for the much more dangerous single |> |>> carriageways. Even at 30 mph that is about 3 cars lengths (or over 4 |> if |> |>> you happen to be driving a BMC Mini). |> |>

|> |> 44 ft/sec is 30 mph. |> |> That makes it 88ft for 2 seconds or about five/six car lengths. |> |> So you obviously drive too close. |> |> Did you always make these mistakes or are you past it? ;-) |> |>

|> |>

|> |Before the 'Only a fool breaks the two second rule' advise |> |the mantra was 'one car length (spacing) for every ten miles per hour' |>

|> Rules should be based on *constants* Seconds are constant and well |> defined, also easy to estimate when driving "one thousand, two thousand, |> ... (first set your count speed against your watch when not driving) Car |> lengths are very variable from Smart cars to Jaguars :-(

|Hey!. In your confusion you're beating the messenger with the stick! |I never said that I agreed with the 'car length' rule I merely reported its |existence!

Reporting something this daft is as bad as inventing it. :-(

Reply to
Dave Fawthrop

It takes about a mile of runway and about 25 miles of air to safely stop a typical jet from 600mph.. What plane are you in and does it have drag chutes fitted?

Reply to
dennis

Perhaps you should take up that position with the authorities who proposed it. BTW; in the Fawthrop-verse is it prohibited to 'report' the existence of anything that you haven't personally endorsed and approved? Enquiring minds ..... :)

Reply to
Brian Sharrock

================================= Your silly last gasp attempt to justify your dangerous driving and no more convincing than previous efforts. You gave a detailed description of your own lethal approach to overtaking and tried to wriggle out of it when your stupidity was exposed. Try living in the real world where sensible people accept the give and take of normal traffic. Stop bleating about your right to choose your speed which is controlled for everybody equally by the volume of traffic.

It doesn't matter how much you try to rationalise your dangerous driving because you're condemned by your own chosen words. You tried to criticise and mock careful drivers but only succeeded in exposing your own lethal lack of experience and skill.

I'm truly saddened to find that I'm not yet in your kill file but your silly persistence only confirms what is already apparent about your dangerous driving. You think that you can outdrive anybody - remember those other drivers you criticised and the 'serious bends' of which you spoke. That's where you'll kill yourself one day and hopefully it will be only yourself and not some innocent driver coming in the opposite direction.

You are showing all the signs of being dangerously psychotic - I hope no innocent driver or pedestrian gets in your way tonight.

Cic.

Reply to
Cicero

The message from Cicero contains these words:

snip

snip

I have left my original comment above. (Not exactly detailed is it?) I leave it to others to judge whether any rational person could possibly read into it the meaning you have.

Are so now we have it. You think you are the world's most careful driver.

I thought from your early contributions that you were an old fogey who had long since passed his sell by date or at least long in the tooth and getting that way but I am beginning to think you might just be a modern youth brought up to think the sun shines out of your arse and taught to drive long after driving was sanitised by safer cars, dual carriageways and excessive regulation.

Incidentally your memory is as faulty as your comprehension. I said significant bend, not serious bends.

As it happens I don't think I can out drive everyone and don't try. I get overtaken as well. Roads aren't racetracks. That you think I do says a lot more about you than it does about me.

And all that just because I still overtake on single carriageways when circumstances permit. Boy you do have a problem.

Reply to
Roger

Well I know it takes damn near a mile to pull up from 140mph..which is the landing speed of an airliner give or take..

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

One memorable bank holiday weekend I had to drive a disco lighting rig down the (then single carriageway) A303 to (eventually) Dartmouth. We started at 2 a.m. on the Friday from Surrey..

After 45 minutes at 35mph behind an endless tail of caravans, I pulled out and started to overtake them. I went for literally miles on the right hand side of the road, always checking for gaps to slot into, and moving in when lights showed an oncoming vehicle.

It remains the only time I spent MORE time on the wrong side of the road than the right. Or rather the left :-)

People today are not taught to overtake on a single carriageway. Largely there are no single carriageway trunks anymore. You can tell when, in the middle of a completely clear stretch of road, they slow down and follow a BICYCLE for half a mile before plucking up the courage to 'perform an overtaking maneuver' and boy do they get upset if you simply pull out and go past the lot of them.

In my yoof, with about 45bhp under the bonnet, if you slowed down, you would have to wait maybe 20 miles to get past something..these days I can still overtake porsches in a land rover, using the old trick of knowing where the possible places are, dropping well back and then charging up to them fast..having a split second to commit to overtaking or back off and brake..why, one even can delay the decision till one is halfway past them..although this is fraught if they get wobbly and put THEIR brakes on as well... so only recommended for dire emergencies.

All this you learnt, or spent hours travelling at the pace of the slowest thing in the road..which could be a tractor, a milk lorry that could not mange better than 20mph up a hill..or just some old codger who reckoned that 30mph is enough for anyone. You HAD to think ahead, and plan everything.

Today? everyone just plays follow my leader and wonders why they get into multicar pile ups.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

The message from Cicero contains these words:

Just an afterthought. I have been driving (with a full licence) for over

45 years. Just how much more experience do I need before I find contentment in Cicero's blinkered approach to driving and just how much experience has he had in formulating that approach.
Reply to
Roger

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