I Want To Kill My Plumber!

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Hello -
If you are a plumber, please don't take offense to the title of my post. It was just that I'm so freaking mad at the guy who has been working on my toilet that I wish I could just choke the life out of him!
Long story short: I've been getting some increasingly bad leaks out of the base of my toilet for the past two or so weeks. I get a plumber out of the phone book - someone local, nice ad, I figure he looks like a solid enough guy.
He shows up, tells me that I need to replace the entire toilet, pulls it up by smashing it! Which causes water to blast all over the place, which caused water to drip down on the floor and into my basement, which got all over my entire collection of People magazines! Ruining at least thirty issues from the early 80's - not easy to replace.
He tells me that it's the price of plumbing, an unfortunate casualty. Frick that! He should pay for these issues, shouldn't he? But he won't!!
And to cap it off, two days later the new john starts leaking!!!! I call him and he tells me he'll get to my house sometime 'before the New Year'!!!!
Goddamnit, this guy is ruining my life! What am I going to tell my family when they come over for Christmas!? To just ignore the fricking water all over the bathroom floor? To use the toilet at the Quizno's down the street??!?!
Is there any line of recourse on this, legal or otherwise? Please help me.
Thanks-
Dustin
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- someone local, nice ad, I figure he looks like

Dustin,,, This is what causes plumbers to get bad names..
Your first mistake, yes yours... was not asking around about him. Local plumbing inspectors office can give you quality plumbers at resonable prices,,that WILL respect the community. Your second was paying him for the job, after poor workmanship.
I would get on the phone to the local health commish, and ask for the inspector. Tell him the TRUTH about the whole job, and ask for a quality plumber. Refuse to let the previous plumber to repair the job. Tell the next plumber when he is there to repair the problem,,and ask for detailed billing, about what actually was leaking
Get prices for replacement of damaged materials, that the 1st plumber caused. Call this plumber,,,and ask for reimbursement of issues. If he refuses, dont get all pissy, remain calm and seek your local clerk of courts.,, a small fee, and you can tell your story to the judge. no lawyers, no hassels. just you, him and the judge.
I will tell you from experience, as well as other plumbers in this group, this is not normal character practice, and normal quality workmanship.
Good luck and let us know what happens.
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Wow. That's incredible. You saved People magazines from the 80's?
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All you had to do was feel the bottom of the Tank ! Then just tighten the Two nuts. Hand Tight only.
One, call the Inspector, don't, you lose in small claims court. Is he Insured, Lic., Clean looking both in dress and Van ? Two, look in the Basement for rotted wood below the WC. Replace if needed. Poke it with an Awl. Soft its bad. Others here will disagree, I find that Wax gaskets seldom go bad unless you had a Very Heavy person use the WC or rotted wood.
Small Claims may take 6 months to reach a Court date. If the Inspector agrees, you have a case. His Job is Public Health, he works for you not to protect any Plumber.
The WC is NOT a Library......Its only for serious thought and to throw up after Drinking too much in some Ginmill. '' Shit Happens. ''
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"Dustin Knowles"
I understand your feelings.
What kind of person saves "People" magazine. Do you have other issues you're not mentioning?
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People mag??? oh,,, i thought he said Hustler...
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LOOK DUSTIN I told you i'm sorry about your stupid magazines.
If you can find a better way to remove a toilet from a house than a sledge hammer go for it. geeze!
You wanted me to be quick about it and your little cup you brush your teeth with and your face cloth was takin forever to bail out the bowl.
I just figured your stinky shag carpet in the bathroom would soak it up. How was I to know it was already waterlogged?
What are you going to tell your family? I don't know; how about; OOPS my ass is fat what can I say.

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"Blackbeard"

figure it's going to take me less than an hour.
Where do you live? Is it Beverly Hills or something?
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I wouldn't walk out of my House for $127.50. It was $450. 4 Hour min.
JP Who now has a Starklite Rebuilt 1951 Indian Chief 80 with 4,446 miles on it.
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I'm not coming to the defense of anyone. And no, we don't all "stick together". But we've all dealt with homeowners who are less than reasonable. If the guy ripped you off, then do what you've gotta do. But you should take a moment and try to see things from both sides. When the plumber blew you off till after the holidays, I would agree, that was a shitty thing to do and I don't agree with that. I've got a full day tomorrow because I have customers who have families coming over on Christmas day. Most of us do try to put our customers first.
As for my fees, I stand by what I charge. $127.50/hour isn't a whole lot of money. And your attorney....how much is he charge per hour to help you sue a plumber? Most people are willing to pay and attorney that $127.50/hour (and usually more). And when you go to the doctor's office, you're more than happy to shell out the cash so some doctor will spent 5-minutes talking to you...after some 2-year-college nurses aide has done all the real work. But god forbid a lowly plumber charges the same rates. God forbid some shmuck who crawls under houses and wades through raw sewage should make more money than YOU.
Frankly, your attorney has an easy CLEAN job compared to the work we do in the field. From my end, I have earned a masters degree, I am certified by the state to teach other plumbers, I am certified to install medical gas piping (which I charge out at $600/hour), and I am a state certified plumbing inspector. I've spent MORE time in school than your attorney. But I guess somehow, he's worth more than me. I guess you're just one of those who doesn't value education and experience.
Sure, you can find somebody cheaper. But somebody cheaper won't bring my level of experience to your job. Find some putz doing his work for $50/hour and he'll take twice as long as somebody who's been in the field for a long time. I find it puzzling that people are wiling to pay less and get less...like a plumber that tells you to wait till after the holidays.
And Dustin...find another hobby buddy. Time Magazines...? If they're that damn valuable to you, maybe they shouldn't be sitting in a box in your basement. Take up a hobby that you really love. Those magazines have been sitting in that basement for how long.... you didn't love those magazines. Get a hobby you love and you'll be much happier. Maybe get a pottery wheel and throw some pots in your spare time. It's very relaxing. If you're going to collect anything, I would recommend you collect women's undergarments that have been signed by the adult stars who wore them. You know...a real man's hobby.
nevermind
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Black Beard -
I am SOOOOOOOO sorry, oh Pirate of the Toilet Waters! Yes, you are more valuable than a doctor. What was I thinking? The guy who fixes my body or my toilet? Duh - that's easy! That's some ego on you, son!
Secondly, you probably wade through raw sewage because it feels like home. You're no different than the plumber who ripped me off. You're all alike and you all stick together. For shame.
And finally, HOW DARE you insult my hobby of collecting People magazines? (I don't collect TIME! Can't you even READ, you wrench monkey?) Just because I keep them in the basement doesn't mean I don't love them as much as I do. I have a beautifully furnished basement. You probably do as well, with the money you make ripping off people like me.
As for your hobby, I assume it is bilking people out of their hard earned money and walking around in raw sewage.
Happy holidays -
Dustin
On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 05:59:55 GMT, Blackbeard

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"Dustin Knowles"
I've already taken Blackbeard to task for treating you like he did, but you still have to apologize for saving People Magazine.
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C'mon, Dustin. What did you expect? We're talking People Magazines. You could have simply said "magazines". Soon as you admit you collect People magazines you are strongly suspected of being a blithering idiot. Is it fair to paint you with a moron brush because of your hobby? No. But you have to remember that plumbing is a trade that requires quick judgment and razor sharp intuition. We plumbers don't have time to ponderously weigh all the variables before making a decision. For one thing, plumbing emergencies demand quick action. For another thing, our customers are paying good money by the hour and rightly expect problems to be quickly dispatched.
For these reasons, plumbers have developed the ability to walk into a situation, read the signs, and draw correct conclusions from those signs. No, we're not right every time, but the numbers are pretty good. So when you say you collect People magazines, every plumber on this list thinks, "there's your sign". In other words, here is a numb chuck who probably doesn't know which end of the screwdriver is the handle and will surely find something to complain about no matter what I do.
Is it fair? No. Is it accurate? You tell me.
MM
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"Blackbeard"

of money.
Now wait a second. Do you mean you charge private individuals this much, and they pay? Here in Cincy, no one gets that much unless they're gouging.

Ha! I knew it!

I'm a plumber, and we're supposed to be on the same side, but COME ON

level of experience to your job.
So you're saying a customer is supposed to pay a guy $127.50/hr to fix a leaking toilet? Do you live on Earth? You might get away with this bragging other places, but this newsgroup is the Big Leagues. That crap won't fly here. Just back away slowly. There's plenty of legitimate reasons for making fun of non-plumbers. Let's not resort to fantasy.
I have spoken
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"pmartin"

Sometime back we all where worried for you.
You know this guy? In that case, I take back everything I said to him. Any pal of yours must be OK.
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ive been a licensed plumber for over 20 years it seems you have been taken it looks like you have either a gasket problem or a flange problem both minor i never had to break out a toilit unless it was cracked if i were you i would call an indepent pluming company and get a secound opinion if the problem is minor try to get it in writing form the secound plumber and try to get your money back

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I have resisted posting to this thread for some time, but here goes...
First of all, I'm not a plumber, but I have to wonder at a plumber that removes a water-filled toilet and apparently fileld tank by shattering it with a hammer, when the things just unbolt in sections....and wouldn't he have swabbed or pumped the thing out first? I'm asking for a pro to comment at that part only... I've put in and taken out toilets by myself, even in a tight space, unbolting was never a problem...
Plumbers? I've had good ones and bad ones. The bad ones included two stoners who sat in the truck doing a joint in my driveway before coming in to work. Not a pipe joint, either;-) Their dad was the plumber in the family, the sons were merely bad apprentices, but we couldn't know that in advance, it was the dad we had hired. They broke some parts while trying clumsily to hang an old fashioned compression band-flange-mounted type steel kitchen sink, (the reason we wanted the old man to do it, he had years of experience in it) accidentally damaged/chipped the custom-made laminate counter top, and didn't want to deduct the cost of the replacements.
Another pair of home improvers said they would re-do my mom in laws bathroom including plumbing and re-doing the walls and hanging tile. Lesson here is don't hire a plumber to put up the ceramic tile;-) They had to tear down and re-do that part of the job three times, and the final job is "just" passable, though it looks worse the longer you sit in there and look.
You don't always have the luxury of checking out competing plumbers when you have an urgent situation and need immediate relief, but maybe, before you take on the next project, or while killing time at the hardware warehouse store, you should look up a few refernces and have a list for your files the next time trouble bubbles up.
Collecting People magazine? Hell just READING that magazine is creepy;-)
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Yeah, it's a little unusual to remove a toilet with a sledge hammer. But I suspect more realistically, the existing bolts were crapped up and wouldn't come loose. Instead of fighting with toilet bolts, I assume the plumber just cracked the area around where the bolts were located. Pumping, yes - most of us will use pumps or a mini shop vac or even sponges to get most of the water out of the toilet. But the toilet has an internal trap. Which means if the particular plumber tapped a little too hard when he was trying to get the toilet loose, it could have fractured far enough to crack the trap seal. This is just an assumption (that the plumber attempted to crack the porcelain because he couldn't get the bolts loose). If instead, the plumber took a sledge hammer and beat the hell out of the toilet and splintered little pieces of sharp porcelain all over the place and didn't sweep up his mess....yeah, I would have to agree that the plumber did not do things the way they should have been done.
But homeowners are idiots when it comes to this stuff. If there is a tiny drip...they will call and say they have water POURING all over the inside of their cabinet. They will refer to a small drip as "SPRAYING ALL OVER THE PLACE". So when PEOPLE refers to these major issues with his plumber, I have to be a little suspicious. A couple of little shards of toilet remnants does not constitute "scattered all over my bathroom floor" and does not constitute "a HUGE mess" Most of us try to clean our work areas. But i don't make a huge issue out of cleaning the work area. I'm being paid to do plumbing, not to be a janitor. And frankly, does the homeowners really want to pay me for an extra 1/2-hour to carefully clean my work area? The damp people magazines...frankly, this particular customer claims that the plumber is responsible for those wet magazines. However, he called a plumber because of a problem with his toilet. The plumber didn't cause that problem. And it is likely that water from the "problem" is just as responsible for those damaged magazines as he claims the plumber is responsible. The homeowner claims that those magazines were "bone dry", but I doubt he carefully checked the magazines before AND after the plumber left. I know magazine collectors. Real collectors keep their precious collection in binders. It's not that I'm unsympathetic to the homeowner who feels ripped. He may entirely right about the entire situation. I've just dealt with enough nimrods out here that I tend to take everything with a little grain of salt and try to assess a situation from every angle
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I work for a small plumbing company and we are constantly getting calls about "water is spraying everywhere."
On Tuesday, my boss responded to a service call where a customer frantically said that her "kitchen faucet was spraying water everywhere and they had to have a plumber immediately!"; turned out to be a leaking bonnet that need to be retightend and as far as the "spraying everywhere" when the faucet was used water seeped out the side of the faucet and ran into the sink.
We have had numerous calls like that where a drip is a waterfall that is flooding the house. Yes, leaks need to be fixed; but they delay serious water emergencies. I.E... someone hammering a nail through a 3/4" waterline running upstairs or shooting a nail through a water line on the second floor. Bad examples I know, but those are two calls that we got.
Amazing how many people don't know where their shut off valve for the house is or there water meter in the yard.
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people are the same the world over------i`ve seen me rush up to jobs like that (breaking speed records) and find next to nothing wrong,take what they say with a pinch of salt

frantically
to
to
waterline
house
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