Your helper better be old enough

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On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 11:49:39 -0500, "Robert Green"

I agree that too many kids are injured and killed. That said, government meddling in the family is still wrong. A law may top a kid from using a power tool, so since he cannot drill a few holes to mend a gate, he takes the ATV out and wrecks it and himself.
You cannot legislate common sense. Just a little bit of it would do more than a hundred laws. Because a few kids are not properly trained or capable of performing a task, thousands of others are forbidden to do those things. I have a hard time with that, especially coming from Washington.
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Some people turn sudafed into meth, so now it's outlawed. And only outlaws have Sudafed.
I think the "it's for the children" routine is a bit over used.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
I agree that too many kids are injured and killed. That said, government meddling in the family is still wrong. A law may top a kid from using a power tool, so since he cannot drill a few holes to mend a gate, he takes the ATV out and wrecks it and himself.
You cannot legislate common sense. Just a little bit of it would do more than a hundred laws. Because a few kids are not properly trained or capable of performing a task, thousands of others are forbidden to do those things. I have a hard time with that, especially coming from Washington.
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Robert Green wrote:

You raise some thoughtful points. My basic fuss is over the regulation prohibiting the use of ANY motorized tool. You focus on 400HP combines, I'm interested in battery-operated drills, vacuum cleaners, blenders, and the like. You seem to be okay with a 16-year old on a farm being able to drive a sedan but not being able to drive a pick-up to the feed store.
For me, that doesn't compute.
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A typical pick-up truck is much more destructive in an accident than the typical sedan at the same speed...
If the pick-up truck is registered as a "farm" or "commercial" vehicle and is intended to be used for the farming business rather than a passenger car for the family use then why should a teenager be able to drive the pick-up ? Safety of the other people on and around the roads is more important than a teenager's ability to drive whatever they want...
Using a battery operated drill can cause serious injury, if for instance the user drills into a live power line or into a hidden gas pipe... Proper training to use hand tools as well as power tools should be required... You focus on all the tiny stuff ans overlook the larger issues... The problem here seems to be training and competency, so perhaps the portion of youngsters who can demonstrate competency to an examiner (like you have to at the DMV to obtain a driver's license) could be allowed to use various tools and equipment as they prove their knowledge and skills with those devices to some sort of standardized assessment...
~~ Evan
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wrote:

Good idea ? It is the FAIR idea...
A family farm is still a farm, and a farm is a combination of: commerce, labor and agriculture, which means that it is totally reasonable to have said activities regulated...
Why stop at the teenagers, why not test EVERY worker on a farm who would operate heavy equipment or work around potentially dangerous animals that weigh in at 1,000 pounds plus...
It could be like the gaming industry where you need to pass a background check and be registered in a farmer's database to work in the industry... Or like transportation workers who need to pass a health check as well as a skills examination to obtain a CDL to drive heavy trucks... People can operate water craft of certain sizes for personal enjoyment and leisure use without obtaining training and certification but once you involve some sort of business activity you need a master's certificate and training in basic seamanship...
Since the major issue that everyone seemed to be in agreement was the causation for the fatalities and maiming type injuries was operator competency, it seems fair that to protect everyone within the entire industry, that some sort of theoretical and practical skills assessment would be the way to deal with the underlying problem...
Given that slightly more than half of the farms in the U.S. are considered non-commercial farms they would have little need to use heavy equipment like combines and similar machines to produce the less than $10,000 per year revenue stream that is generated... But why should farmers be exempted from proper licensing on equipment like backhoes and skid steers... Landscapers and snowplow operators are required to obtain special operator's licenses to operate those pieces of medium duty equipment, yet most agricultural uses are exempted...
I am quite confident that if you look into the issue more deeply, you will find that the safety issue around motorized equipment on a farm involves more than 70 accidents with children involved on an annual basis...
Someone quipped about the proposed regulations about using powered tools and equipment wouldn't apply to or effect a child using an ATV... Well on a farm it would, as unless the ATV was being used for entirely leisure purposes which involved no activity being undertaken which was related to or caused by the commerce, labor or agricultural activities connected to the farming, ATV use by children to whom the regulations applied would be prohibited...
Lastly, increasingly as of late, school sports are being given more attention as to how dangerous an activity it is... Not so much for the major injuries that can happen but from the accumulation of all the smaller hits that can impact cognitive functioning or cause repetitive strain injuries from pitching in baseball, etc... But because they are not being regulated by specific laws, but by the league rules you seem to not be aware that the terms and conditions which apply to who can participate and how they may participate conveniently escape you... Student athletes have to have a sports physical for each sport/season they participate in... That alone screens out multitudes of would be participants based on underlying medical conditions which would have made injury much more likely...
Farming activities have no such basic safety precautions... Perhaps that needs to change for everyone's safety...
~~ Evan
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Was that when Culkin moved in ?
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .

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That's profound. I may quote that, now and again.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
It's NOT a problem when compared to the consequences of extreme meddling.
A deputy sheriff once told me "I never saw a kid get in trouble that owned an animal - a cow, a sheep, whatever. Oh, sure, some would get boozed up from time to time, but I never saw one pull a robbery or a burglary or anything serious. Having to watch after the animal taught responsibility."
So you save 100 children's lives a year with the new regulations and give birth to 10,000 felons. What a choice. Let me think...
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A child actor needs to be supervised at all times by a parent or legal guardian while working in the media industry and MUST also attend school on set during down time...
At all times means the parent or legal guardian must be present at the work location and be supervising and monitoring the activities of the child and everything that child is doing...
It is not like a parent drops a child actor off at the set and comes back to pick them up hours later...
This is why young children are allowed to work in the entertainment media industry, their parent/guardian is supposed to be there and looking out for their safety at all times...
~~ Evan
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wrote:

Your flawed use of an examples out of antiquity (Jay North) was prior to the child labor laws for actors being tweaked to what they are today... The very high incidence of drug abuse by young actors in the 1970's and 1980's is what prompted the major changes...
So really, what went on in the 50's, 60's and 70's with your two example personalities is umm, basically what instigated the "parent or guardian in attendance at all times, as well as the teacher on the set for schooling' requirements...
Linking a child's or families' choice to star in movies and not develop a normal social life with non-famous peers is indicative of only the youngster's greed for money or fame and not that the entertainment industry is using, abusing or exploiting them in any way... Plenty of plain old ordinary children who aren't in movies grow up spoiled and antisocial without any employment in the film industry...
For every one example of a former child actor who is still in the news due to their young adult or adult mistakes or choices which lead to drugs or crime, there are hundreds of child actors who starred in a single movie (or even a few) and then faded back into the obscurity from which they were discovered to live a normal life...
I would say that given the entertaining nature of news stories featuring famous people and the countries borderline nosiness/voyeuristic tendencies that your assertion of what took place 20 something years in the past continuing today is a fallacy of logic fed by a newsmedia with an agenda to sell advertising time...
~~ Evan
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Robert Green wrote:

The phenomenon works in reverse, too. Among bachelors, it's well known that dating an elementary school teacher is a disaster. These teachers spend half their day relating at the emotional level of an eight-year old. This transfers quite easily to grown-up interactions.
You're right. Kids should be kids - but it's part of growing up that they learn responsibility.
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"Antiquity" i.e. that which happened to a 60 year old child actor more than 50 years ago while he was still a child... As opposed to "modern" which is recent...
Continued use of flawed examples with wild leaps of something other than provable fact to tie them neatly into your preconceived determination of what must be fact in this situation = issue zealot...
It is clear you will keep harping on the handful of examples which are the most egregious while overlooking (yeah that is the polite way of saying it) the thousands and thousands of youth who did a few acting gigs and faded out of the industry...
As far as children wanting to be actors, it is you that need a dose of reality here... Fame sells... Why do you think so many young people dream of playing professional sports ? Well being a professional actor is just as famous and the top actors earn around the same compensation that the top athletes get these days... Out of the thousands and thousands of high school and college athletes how many make it into the "big show" i.e. the NBA, NFL, NHL, etc... How many are permanently injured along the way in their attempt to make it in the big game ? How many high schools use sporting events as major fund raisers ?
I would say that schools using their students to make money in the millions is a bigger problem than the few parents who exploit their children in the TV/film industry... There are more children in the U.S. that are homeless and/or runaways than the small few cases in which what you describe actually happens...
Solve the bigger more serious problems first...
~~ Evan
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http://chrischinn.wordpress.com/2012/02/09/will-my-children-be-allowed-to-work-on-our-farm /
I personally think it is proof of how far out of touch with reality the Washington crowd really is.
I hope those of you with the ability to share this man's post will do so.
--
Colbyt
Please come visit http://www.househomerepair.com
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On 2/10/2012 1:41 PM, HeyBub wrote:

http://chrischinn.wordpress.com/2012/02/09/will-my-children-be-allowed-to-work-on-our-farm /
More nanny state male bovine droppings. ^_^
TDD
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We live in rural SE Kansas and this has been getting some air-time down here. Absolutely stupid, especially in and area like this were farm work is one of the best options for young people. High School kids are an important source of labor for farmers and it can pay well for youngsters needing a source of income. I spent a lot of my summers and some school-year weekends pitching hay, handling livestock and mowing fields. Now we are raising an entire generation who think the french-fry cooker at McDonald's is hard work.
When I was in high school I played football and participated in track. Those were the good days when I was lean, mean, muscled and tan, but I didn't get that way on the football field. I did it bouncing around on hay trailers or lifting 100 pound piglets so the vet could vaccinate them. We stretched fence, did carpentry and maintenance work but generally kept ourselves in football condition by doing hard work. With laws like this Michell Obama will have to step up her work to 'help" fat kids.
In later years I ended up in aerospace program management and business development -- a business that demands long, long hours. I can't tell how many times I have sat at my desk at 11:00 pm getting work done for the next day's deadline when my mind went back to the hot, dusty confines near the roof of a barn as I was pulling bales off of a conveyer and blowing dust out of my nose. Those were the good old days when I developed a pretty fair work ethic.
RonB
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On 2/11/12 9:25 AM, RonB wrote:

The farmers in my area (southeast Nebraska) baled hay in the 60# or so bales. Not much stacking. Hauling hay was good money for some of my friends. We have some big seed companies in my area: Pioneer, Monsanto, and Mycogen. The kids can make some money detassling. I think most are 13-16. Detassling is done before school starts. Most of the actual work is just the walking down the rows. They usually get together in groups of a couple or five then do their thing. I think they try to get done by two or so in the afternoon before the serious heat hits. It's good for them. They learn about the basics of earning a living. I tried to find the exact quote "Idleness is the devil's workshop". This turned up in the search:
It is the working man who is the happy man. It is the idle man who is the miserable man. [info][add][mail] Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790) From http://tinyurl.com/7ba5bwg
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wrote:

What this quote seems to gloss over is that the working man's OUTPUT, his essencs if you will, is desired by mankind, which makes him hapy. Where in contrast, the idle man is idle because nobody wants anything from him, he has no need to be alive, very unhappy indeed.
It's like the religiious groups that ostracize a member by NOT letting him contribute, a horrible punishment.
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Kids can get school permits here in Nebraska at the ripe old age of 14. Driving a farm tractor is probably a good way to get some of the basics down. Maximum speed for most tractors is probably around 25 mph.
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On 2/10/2012 1:41 PM, HeyBub wrote:

Oh, bullshit. Do you always fall for scaremail, or do you ever bother to check the source?
Here's the list of proposed revisions, placed alongside the current rules: http://www.dol.gov/whd/CL/SidebySideNPRM.htm
They're talking equipment that anyone who isn't interested in promoting scares understands to be major power tools. NOT hoses or flashlights. They even note that garden tractors are exempt from the proposed rules. Also, the family exemption remains, as does the helping-the-neighbor exception. Farmers just won't be able to legally hire children under 16 who aren't their own to perform dangerous tasks. Like castrating animals, or spraying pesticides, or operating heavy farm machinery. Even in those cases, the rules have exceptions.
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On 2/13/2012 7:55 AM, Hell Toupee wrote:

Why would you want to ruin a perfectly good thread with facts?
What do you have against a blog by chrischinn? If he blogs on the internet it must be true!!!
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Hell Toupee wrote:

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