Would you consider this bad quality fence job?


I hired someone to put up a wood fence, and I am not too happy about the outcome. In the contract I specified how far the posts need to be placed, how deep to bury, using concrete cement, how high the fence needs to be etc...and all of it has to be to code anyways.
But the outcome...well my fault for not specifying two things:
(1) Material...I was told all the wood planks for the fence are "standard" therefore there is no need to specify what type. Well I am getting this pressure treated wood planks with all sorts of white knots. The installer told me it's normal. I looked around at other people's fence and I do not see the same knots ALL OVER...on may be a few, but not on all planks. See the pics:
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w67/143house/P1000656.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w67/143house/P1000654.jpg
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SORRY INCOMPLETE POST - news server acting up. Here is the complete post.
I hired someone to put up a wood fence, and I am not too happy about the outcome. In the contract I specified how far the posts need to be placed, how deep to bury, using concrete cement, how high the fence needs to be etc...and all of it has to be to code anyways.
But the outcome...well my fault for not specifying two things:
(1) Material...I was told all the wood planks for the fence are "standard" therefore there is no need to specify what type. Well I am getting this pressure treated wood planks with all sorts of white knots. The installer told me it's normal. I looked around at other people's fence and I do not see the same knots ALL OVER...on may be a few, but not on all planks. See the pics:
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w67/143house/P1000656.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w67/143house/P1000654.jpg
(2) The planks are also not straight, so it bends in here and bends out there, it just does not look good.
I asked him why he did not buy the preassembled 6'x8' fences at HD that seems to be of higher quality wood he said he prefer to build the fence himself with planks piece by piece.
(3) Now when I am looking on the other side of the fence (inside), the runners are not straight, some of it crooked, some of it not level...see for yourself:
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w67/143house/P1000657.jpg
There are also lots of gaps between planks, in many places I can stick my thumb through.
I am not happy with this, yet there is nothing in the contract that says anything has to be straight and level, and planks need to be assembled in such a way to minimize gaps.
or am I just too picky?
MC
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From what I see you got a crappy fence. Ray Charles could have put up a straighter fence than that.
Steve
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I agree with Steve.
I've built a lot of fences and trust me that one is not good.
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it's ugly. you were screwed.
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MiamiCuse wrote:

It looks bad, but I am going to guess it meets the specifications. Wood quality can be specified and if it was not ... it may be a little late to do much now.
If you think it is worth following up on, you can see a local legal eagle and ask them. Likely they can come up with some sort of usual and expected level of quality or some sort of thing. It may cost you more than the fence to do that.
I would suggest that it comes down to the cheapest contractor is not always the cheapest and you should always check references.
--
Joseph Meehan

Dia \'s Muire duit
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wrote:

I would not be happy with it either. It looks like the guy used low grade material and couldn't even put it together straight. Did you see any of his previous work and check out his references? This kind of thing should be obvious in his previous jobs. Also, why did you let it go to completion. I always make sure I see what's going on in the beginning, so I can find problems before the job is done. The big problem now is that there is no easy fix. The whole thing would have to be done over.
Did you pay him in full? If not, I would not pay him in full. That is also important if you take him to small claims court, which is an option. If you paid him in full after he finished and you had an opportunity to inspect it, that's one thing in his favor that the court will consider. You could take him to small claims court. However, if you win a judgement, it's common to find it very difficult to collect. These shysters frequently are judgement proof, with no steady income and all assets in someone elses name.
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On Mar 12, 9:32�am, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

rotten fence builder.........
amazingly bad..........
tell him you want a settlement, or removal or you will call the media.
one tv news piece and this guy will never work again in your area.
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rotten fence builder.........
amazingly bad..........
tell him you want a settlement, or removal or you will call the media.
one tv news piece and this guy will never work again in your area.
looks like you hired a kid with little experience because he was way cheaper than any real contractors. if that's the case, you should just live with it.
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MiamiCuse wrote:

I turn the runners with long side vertical (4" up/down). The weight of the pickets causes sag more easily with the orientation your builder used.
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A picture is worth a thousand words. Seems to me that his assertion that he used "standard" lumber might be ok if it was just the knots, but level plumb and square do not seem to be unreasonable expectations when hiring a pro to build something.
--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
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MiamiCuse wrote:

I hope for your sake that he was wearing a condom..... <G>
Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat \'57 EE)
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I have to agree with the other posters. This is a sad fence.
IMO, A 6" fence should have 3 stringers not 2. They should be turned with the edge up.
Just an a round hack job.
Good luck in getting a happy resolution.
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Colbyt wrote:

I dunno...
A third stringer might injure one or more of those asshole teen agers who've taken up "fence ploughing", and the fence's owner would get sued blind for putting up a "man trap". <G>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WNSCpEl2GA&mode=related&search
Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat \'57 EE)
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I watched a little of the clip, and my first impression is that hopefully these twits will damage themselves enough to eliminate themselves from the gene pool. Of course, do 'jackass' wannabes like that ever actually get laid anyway?
aem sends...
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MiamiCuse wrote:

If you are asking the same question in more than one newsgroup it is not bad form to crosspost the question once to all of the groups at the same time. That allows people to read all of the replies and not waste their time, and yours, posting/reading the same answer. Here's what I wrote in response to your question in rec.woodworking.
You're not being too picky at all, but you're closing the barn door a bit late.
- From the looks of it, the guy obviously never put up a fence before, apparently never _saw_ a fence before and drank heavily while building yours. That's unfair - he may have been shooting up while building it. - If the first section looks like crap, you won't feel better when the whole fence is up and the whole thing looks like crap. Stop the work. - You've just learned that what is not included in the contract will bite your ass every time. - If you didn't check some references (that means taking a drive and eyeballing some of the guy's work - not picking up the phone and calling his brother who will be the one picking up the phone), and took the lowest bid - well, you have to share some of the blame.
What to do from here. Find out if fence installers have to be licensed in your neck of the woods - if so, this guy ain't, so report him. You may be entitled to all of your money back (whether you'll see it or not is another story). Around here the contractor licensing agency has a homeowner restitution fund for just such situations. It's a bit of a touchy subject with me because the homeowner is trying to save a buck the wrong way and hiring the unlicensed hack. I don't see why good contractors should be made to pay for the bad contractors. The contractors in turn pass on the cost to their good customers - again, the wrong people are paying. You can't legislate stupidity out of existence.
If there is no licensing requirement and no restitution fund, you've just learned what you should have known from the start. The only one that can protect your interests is you. If you don't have enough knowledge to be able to tell the good from the bad - contractors and work - then hire someone who does.
R
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On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 00:34:34 -0400, "MiamiCuse"

Yes, you got a low-quality fence, made out of low quality materials. Is that what you paid for?
Painting the thing might help with the looks, from the outside.
Did you CHECK any of the guy's references, or just read the list of names? 'Cause if he gave you references, and he built the same thing that he built at those sites, I don't think you're going to recover any money in court. What you've got isn't pretty, but it's verging on adequate.
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I can just see all the knots bleeding through again and again.
Why are they "white"? Wet wood? Chemicals?
Would a stain be easier?
-- Oren
"If things get any worse, I'll have to ask you to stop helping me."
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wrote:> Why are they "white"? Wet wood? Chemicals?

Looks like mold to me. A firm but not harsh pressure washing once the weather is warm and dry in your area might solve that problem. I have seen knots grow mold before when a fence was built in Fall or damp weather.
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On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 17:33:46 -0700, "Steve B"

That's a great story.
Mine is only 30 years old, and not as good, but.... We wanted to ride our bicycles from Brooklyn to Staten Island, even though there is no sidewalk on the Verrazanno Bridge. But it's a bridge with 3 lanes in each direction on each of two levels, and none of the lanes on our level were very busy. The road curves to the right just as the bridge lands on the Staten Island side, so we slipped through the bushes on the right before anyone at the toll booths could see us.
We got down to earth level but there was a tall chain link fence surrounding the base of the bridge, so we got on the bikes and circled to the right, hoping to find a hole. We were almost all the way around and almost past the Port of New York Authority building and almost to the sidewalk outside when a policeman stopped us, and wanted to know what we were doing. I said, "We're trying to get to Brooklyn, but it looks like we can't." "That's right," the cop said, and he firmly gestured for us to leave the way were headed.
I have to thank Groucho Marx for the inspiration.
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