woodburning stove for office/shop

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My office is in the 12x24 section of my 36x24 shop. All 36x24 is insulated - walls and ceilings. The office side has 2 man doors - one to the outside and the other to the shop. The shop-side has a couple of garage doors.
The 12x24 has a 220v electric heater.
I have plenty of hardwood on the property to heat - hedge, locust, oak.
#1 priority is to heat the office, Mon - Friday 10 hours a day #2 is to heat the shop as needed #3 is to heat in the event we lose power to the house and need to live in the office/shop for a few days.
Any thoughts on a low cost wood burning stove? Hedge burns hot -- I've heard stories of it turning stoves red.
I have a simple, low-slope, gabel roof, in case that influences the chimney pipe.
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I have one in my 40' X 60' shop, and it will make it plenty comfortable given an hour or so to get up to speed. I have no partitions, and there are places you can see daylight where the spot between the roof and wall has never been completed. I picked mine up at a swap meet, it was shop built out of boiler plate & upholstered internally with fire brick. .Iit took 4 guys to load it into my pickup, it must weigh around 200 lbs I unloaded it with a forklift. One thing I did to improve heat was; to run the stove pipe up out of the way, then run it horizontal about 10' then out through the wall. If you take that approach, learn from my errors, and use a T to transition back to vertical, that way you can replace a cheap easy to replace cap on the bottom when it rusts rather than an elbow that is a pain to replace. I even drilled a small hole in the cap to let it drain, & it has lasted several years. Sometimes I put a squirrel cage fan behind it, & that really helps spread the heat around, a box fan would likely work, even a well placed ceiling fan. It isn't all wine and roses, there is wood to cut and haul, then ashes to haul and spread,
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Now, that sounds like true wisdom. Thanks for taking the time to write.
I knew one fellow who made up an oil drip. He set up a bucket of oil on a high shelf, mixed with kerosene. Ran it to a valve, and dripped into the fire box. He could run all day on a couple piece of wood to get it going, and then burn oil the rest of the day. A couple other folks had furnaces "run away" and give them problems, so he quit.
As I remember, his pole barn was big enough to park six cars in (though he didn't have that many, but it gives you a size reference). In the cold winter, it was warm within a foot or two of the stove. Carpet would have helped a lot, or wood floor. But, he used it as a repair shop for cars, and so that wasn't an option.
Another friend used to soak his wood in used motor oil, and that would burn a bit longer. And a bit hotter. He actually had an old oil furnace, and took the oil burner off. He'd stoke the burner box with wood, and that would keep the house warm. The next people put the oil burner back on. And the people after that, PVC pipes were seen coming out of the wall, so they must have put in a 90 percenter furnace.
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Christopher A. Young
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I've not kept up with brands of stoves but most any of the popular brands should be reasonably efficient. I'd stick with cast iron over sheet metal. Yes, you can get low cost stoves, but they are not going to work as well as the better stoves. Less efficiency means shorter burns, more wood to haul, less heat on the really cold days. You may be able to get a used stove at reasonable price too.
As for hedge burning hot and turning stoves red, that would be poor quality stoves or careless use. Any wood can make a stove glow red if not properly controlled. A thermostatic air damper will easily prevent it.
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I've heard those "airtight" stoves are good. Allows for a slow burn, and you're feeding the stove less often. People with "catalytic converter" tell me they break easily, and gosh awful expensive to replace. I'd avoid the catalytic if possible. I do believe Ed is right, cast iron will be more effective than sheet metal. Maybe more pricey, too.
Some stoves have a water heater loop. If you're a handyman, you may be able to use the stove to heat a tank of water, and then use the hot water to heat with a pump and radiators. Water stores a lot of heat. The advantage is you could heat the tank during the day, and then the hot water would release heat over night, so you're not getting up at 2 AM to pee and feed the stove. Just quick pee, and go back to bed.
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Christopher A. Young
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**spamblock##@hotmail.com (Stormin Mormon) says...

Airtight stoves haven't been sold in the USA in over 30 years. All current stoves have to meet EPA pollution specs, which means either a recombustion chamber or catalytic converter.

It's easy to poison a catalytic converter by burning junk in the stove. One cup of used motor oil and you have an expensive piece of inert platinum. Anything that contains metals is particularly poisonous.

A water coil on a wood stove makes a great backup to a solar hot water system. In hot weather, the sun makes more hot water than you can use. In the winter, the wood stove makes more hot water than you can use. All you need is some thermostats to turn on the right pump.
If you want a stove that will hold a fire all night, buy one with a firebox big enough to hold a couple 10" rounds.
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How valuable is the OP TIME???
by the time you harvest the wood, split the wood, stack the wood far enough away so you dont attract termites, haull the wood inside, burn the wood, haul out the ashes and maintain the stove
well your wood is on site which helps a lot.
but it takes lots of time to do all that work.
what can you sell a hour of shop time for?
free firewood sounds wonderful but its not really free:(
dont forget to notify your homeowners insurance company, your rates will likely go up:(
but if you dont notify them, and have a fire, they may disown you covering nothing......
isnt free firewood wonderful, sorry for dumping water on your plans
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On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 05:12:10 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Hmm, 8 cords will last about a season here and is a weekend of harvesting / splitting / stacking... not too bad.
Given the price of electric or propane heat I think it makes sense - providing you have a sustainable source of wood (we've only got a couple of acres of trees on our property, so would need to go further afield to make up a full season's load)
cheers
Jules
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add; Cleaning up the dirt that gets tracked in, the ash that escapes, the smoke that discolors and the customers who can't come to your office because they don't like the smell.
The OP didn't say what the business was. If it is a white color business, forget the stove. If it is some sort of business where the stove adds the right ambiance- then maybe it is worth it.

That's certainly a question that should be asked.
Jim
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In article <9eb36af8-0e0d-4281-9f95-26c494889ab4
says...

There are other advantages to heating with wood. Just having your own energy utility is very nice. When the power goes out, the warmth and comfort of my home doesn't change. I have a camp stove for cooking during outages, but have never used it. Instead, I just cook on top of the wood stove. Warm feet and hot meals are a real luxury in an ice storm. I feel sorry for those folks who are trying to cook over a burning bank statement.
It is also good exercise, and more moral than burning fossil fuels.
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I've never had a wood stove, but been to peoples houses who have. Whatever you do, please invest in a couple battery fans. Blow the heat off the ceiling. Or, you may over heat the room and wish to blow some heat into the other room.
You get get 12 volt fans at the RV section or auto parts section of most marts. Run it off a car battery, or jumper pack while the power is out. The couple times I've used backup heat, I didn't realize how essential that furnace fan is. The floor was too cold. One night, froze butt in bed, while the ceiling was warm. Since then, I've got a couple battery fans.
Check with the local stove sellers. And the building inspector. They may have requirements for shielding, distances to combustibles, etc.
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coloradotrout wrote:

Try a pellet stove, it's less tending to for an office.
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The thing with woodstoves is you need to add them to your insurance policy to be covered for fire...
Then the insurance company will want to come out and inspect the installation. They will want to see a building permit which shows the installation of the stove/chimney was inspected and passed. They will want to take measurements from stove to walls and hearth. Will want to see the label on the back of the stove. And will want to know brand/model. (Measurements differ depending on specific model of woodstove.)
The building inspector (at least in my area) will want to see the manufacturer's installation instructions as to distances the stove can be from the wall, hearth measurements in instructions (if you have a wood floor), and an EPA label on the back of the woodstove.
So if you want to be covered by insurance, this pretty much requires you to buy a new woodstove (would have EPA label - old don't), and you would need to install everything to the woodstove and chimney manufacturer's specifications (stainless steel double wall chimney usually). And do it right so it will pass inspection.
Doing all this almost guarantees there will never be a fire caused by the woodstove, thus the insurance company is happy to add it to your policy!
Also different model woodstoves need different size chimney pipe! So get the woodstove first. And the distance from the wall will vary depending on model of woodstove, so again get woodstove first, then determine where the chimney will go based on its distance from the wall.
And the thing with woodstoves is you need to add additional wood while a fire is still burning. If you get a small woodstove, it only has space for the wood which is burning and no space to add additional wood. If you get a large stove, it will have additional space to add more wood with a fire burning.
And with a large stove, you can build a small fire or a large fire. With a small stove, only a small fire.
With a large woodstove, you can place many different sizes of wood inside up to around 22 inches long! This makes it easier when cutting wood. You don't need to be so picky that each piece is short.
Basically I'm quite glad I bought the largest woodstove they had in the store. Like this... http://www.englandsstoveworks.com/30-nc.html
This is one brand of stainless steel chimney... http://www.selkirkcorp.com/Metalbest/Product.aspx?id !0
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Bullshit. I added a large wood burning stove to my house. I called my agent, and he informed me that it would be $22 additional on my yearly insurance. No measuring, no permits, nothing. Maybe Bill lives in a place that requires all this, but I don't, and you may not. Do not take it as gospel, but rather call your own agent and find out what it is for YOU.
And try to match the stove to the volume you want to heat. And to the type of room. Yes, a large stove will heat a drafty shop that has a lot of air leaks. But it will be too much for a tightly sealed office or shop. One size does not fit all, as Bill suggests.
What is an "almost" guarantee? I guess that would lead to disclaimers, riders, deductibles, and exceptions when it comes to getting paid for a loss.
Steve
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On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 08:18:04 -0700, Bill wrote:

We had that with out place when we bought it, only with a furnace rather than stove - insurance places wouldn't touch it unless it was all UL approved and the system inspected up to the eyeballs.
The stove in question was all 1/4" plate, totally home made. Big split along one seam - probably been like that for years. Fun stuff :-)
I'm not sure what EPA approval is - is that the same as UL approval and the terminology's just changed? Or does UL approval apply to furnaces and EPA approval to stoves? UL was the thing all the insurance companies up here were worried about.
With the wood furnace gone we're on propane and electric baseboard now, but I'd quite like to get a wood furnace back in there too sometime. Might go with an external one, though, which would also free up the half of the basement that's currently full of wood (and I could brick off the wood chute)
cheers
Jules
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UL approval addresses chiefly safe burning (when a stove is installed in compliance with manufacturer's instructions and local fire safety codes:) these are the main concerns of the building permits office. EPA approval concerns the efficient consumption of fuel and production of heat, carbon in smoke, etc. They are quite different (although city-based insurance agents seldom understand this.)
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Don Phillipson
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My newer woodstove is designed to have a "secondary burn". This reduces the smoke. So less smoke emissions.
Basically my neighbor has an old fashioned fireplace and there is a very visible cloud of smoke constantly coming out of his chimney. With my EPA certified woodstove going full blast, sometimes you can't see any smoke coming out or very little.
EPA is Environmental Protection Agency.
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On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 10:22:29 -0700, Bill wrote:

Yes, just wasn't sure what the difference was between that and UL approval, which is what all the insurance companies around here seem to be worried about... (none of them ever mentioned any EPA approval requirement to us, anyway*)
Given what Don said, it seems like they're concerned with it being safe, but they don't give a hoot about how 'green' it is - which I suppose as far as getting insurance goes is the way it should be, as insurance companies aren't there to police environmental issues...
* in a furnace rather than stove context, however. Maybe that's the key thing.
cheers
Jules
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Jules wrote:

UL basically certifies that electrical things will FAIL safely, and could only underwrite the electrics of a stove. For a wood stove that would mean the blowers or whatever if they're present. I think someone is confusing the EPA certification with UL.
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On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 22:18:19 -0500, K wrote:

Yeah, maybe they are - although the interesting thing is that we called around ten different insurance companies, and UL approval was what they *all* asked about. Maybe it's some odd competitive thing and they're all watching what each other is ofering - once one of 'em mistakenly puts UL approval as a requirement in their policies all the others automatically follow without really checking facts first...
cheers
Jules
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