woodburning stove for office/shop

[coloradotrout]

My office is in the 12x24 section of my 36x24 shop. All 36x24 is insulated - walls and ceilings. The office side has 2 man doors - one to the outside and the other to the shop. The shop-side has a couple of garage doors.

The 12x24 has a 220v electric heater.

I have plenty of hardwood on the property to heat - hedge, locust, oak.

#1 priority is to heat the office, Mon - Friday 10 hours a day #2 is to heat the shop as needed #3 is to heat in the event we lose power to the house and need to live in the office/shop for a few days.

Any thoughts on a low cost wood burning stove? Hedge burns hot -- I've heard stories of it turning stoves red.

I have a simple, low-slope, gabel roof, in case that influences the chimney pipe.

[Eric in North TX]

I have one in my 40' X 60' shop, and it will make it plenty comfortable given an hour or so to get up to speed. I have no partitions, and there are places you can see daylight where the spot between the roof and wall has never been completed. I picked mine up at a swap meet, it was shop built out of boiler plate & upholstered internally with fire brick. .Iit took 4 guys to load it into my pickup, it must weigh around 200 lbs I unloaded it with a forklift. One thing I did to improve heat was; to run the stove pipe up out of the way, then run it horizontal about 10' then out through the wall. If you take that approach, learn from my errors, and use a T to transition back to vertical, that way you can replace a cheap easy to replace cap on the bottom when it rusts rather than an elbow that is a pain to replace. I even drilled a small hole in the cap to let it drain, & it has lasted several years. Sometimes I put a squirrel cage fan behind it, & that really helps spread the heat around, a box fan would likely work, even a well placed ceiling fan. It isn't all wine and roses, there is wood to cut and haul, then ashes to haul and spread,

[Ed Pawlowski]

I've not kept up with brands of stoves but most any of the popular brands should be reasonably efficient. I'd stick with cast iron over sheet metal. Yes, you can get low cost stoves, but they are not going to work as well as the better stoves. Less efficiency means shorter burns, more wood to haul, less heat on the really cold days. You may be able to get a used stove at reasonable price too.

As for hedge burning hot and turning stoves red, that would be poor quality stoves or careless use. Any wood can make a stove glow red if not properly controlled. A thermostatic air damper will easily prevent it.

[Stormin Mormon]

I've never had a wood stove, but been to peoples houses who have. Whatever you do, please invest in a couple battery fans. Blow the heat off the ceiling. Or, you may over heat the room and wish to blow some heat into the other room.

You get get 12 volt fans at the RV section or auto parts section of most marts. Run it off a car battery, or jumper pack while the power is out. The couple times I've used backup heat, I didn't realize how essential that furnace fan is. The floor was too cold. One night, froze butt in bed, while the ceiling was warm. Since then, I've got a couple battery fans.

Check with the local stove sellers. And the building inspector. They may have requirements for shielding, distances to combustibles, etc.

[Stormin Mormon]

Now, that sounds like true wisdom. Thanks for taking the time to write.

I knew one fellow who made up an oil drip. He set up a bucket of oil on a high shelf, mixed with kerosene. Ran it to a valve, and dripped into the fire box. He could run all day on a couple piece of wood to get it going, and then burn oil the rest of the day. A couple other folks had furnaces "run away" and give them problems, so he quit.

As I remember, his pole barn was big enough to park six cars in (though he didn't have that many, but it gives you a size reference). In the cold winter, it was warm within a foot or two of the stove. Carpet would have helped a lot, or wood floor. But, he used it as a repair shop for cars, and so that wasn't an option.

Another friend used to soak his wood in used motor oil, and that would burn a bit longer. And a bit hotter. He actually had an old oil furnace, and took the oil burner off. He'd stoke the burner box with wood, and that would keep the house warm. The next people put the oil burner back on. And the people after that, PVC pipes were seen coming out of the wall, so they must have put in a 90 percenter furnace.

[Stormin Mormon]

I've heard those "airtight" stoves are good. Allows for a slow burn, and you're feeding the stove less often. People with "catalytic converter" tell me they break easily, and gosh awful expensive to replace. I'd avoid the catalytic if possible. I do believe Ed is right, cast iron will be more effective than sheet metal. Maybe more pricey, too.

Some stoves have a water heater loop. If you're a handyman, you may be able to use the stove to heat a tank of water, and then use the hot water to heat with a pump and radiators. Water stores a lot of heat. The advantage is you could heat the tank during the day, and then the hot water would release heat over night, so you're not getting up at 2 AM to pee and feed the stove. Just quick pee, and go back to bed.

[Van Chocstraw]

Try a pellet stove, it's less tending to for an office.

[Bill]

The thing with woodstoves is you need to add them to your insurance policy to be covered for fire...

Then the insurance company will want to come out and inspect the installation. They will want to see a building permit which shows the installation of the stove/chimney was inspected and passed. They will want to take measurements from stove to walls and hearth. Will want to see the label on the back of the stove. And will want to know brand/model. (Measurements differ depending on specific model of woodstove.)

The building inspector (at least in my area) will want to see the manufacturer's installation instructions as to distances the stove can be from the wall, hearth measurements in instructions (if you have a wood floor), and an EPA label on the back of the woodstove.

So if you want to be covered by insurance, this pretty much requires you to buy a new woodstove (would have EPA label - old don't), and you would need to install everything to the woodstove and chimney manufacturer's specifications (stainless steel double wall chimney usually). And do it right so it will pass inspection.

Doing all this almost guarantees there will never be a fire caused by the woodstove, thus the insurance company is happy to add it to your policy!

Also different model woodstoves need different size chimney pipe! So get the woodstove first. And the distance from the wall will vary depending on model of woodstove, so again get woodstove first, then determine where the chimney will go based on its distance from the wall.

And the thing with woodstoves is you need to add additional wood while a fire is still burning. If you get a small woodstove, it only has space for the wood which is burning and no space to add additional wood. If you get a large stove, it will have additional space to add more wood with a fire burning.

And with a large stove, you can build a small fire or a large fire. With a small stove, only a small fire.

With a large woodstove, you can place many different sizes of wood inside up to around 22 inches long! This makes it easier when cutting wood. You don't need to be so picky that each piece is short.

Basically I'm quite glad I bought the largest woodstove they had in the store. Like this...

This is one brand of stainless steel chimney...

[SteveB]

Bullshit. I added a large wood burning stove to my house. I called my agent, and he informed me that it would be $22 additional on my yearly insurance. No measuring, no permits, nothing. Maybe Bill lives in a place that requires all this, but I don't, and you may not. Do not take it as gospel, but rather call your own agent and find out what it is for YOU.

And try to match the stove to the volume you want to heat. And to the type of room. Yes, a large stove will heat a drafty shop that has a lot of air leaks. But it will be too much for a tightly sealed office or shop. One size does not fit all, as Bill suggests.

What is an "almost" guarantee? I guess that would lead to disclaimers, riders, deductibles, and exceptions when it comes to getting paid for a loss.

Steve

[Heathcliff]

It's been a while since I've looked, but they used to sell kits for turning a 55 gallon drum into a wood stove. Much lower cost than a new stove. Is it the highest quality wood stove you can buy? Is it a beautiful addition to your home? No - but might be a good way to test the concept. You can line with firebrick to extend the life. The large surface area of the drum actually does help with heat output and efficiency. Put together right, it can be fairly airtight too. But, can't say I have actually done it. -- H

[Jules]

We had that with out place when we bought it, only with a furnace rather than stove - insurance places wouldn't touch it unless it was all UL approved and the system inspected up to the eyeballs.

The stove in question was all 1/4" plate, totally home made. Big split along one seam - probably been like that for years. Fun stuff :-)

I'm not sure what EPA approval is - is that the same as UL approval and the terminology's just changed? Or does UL approval apply to furnaces and EPA approval to stoves? UL was the thing all the insurance companies up here were worried about.

With the wood furnace gone we're on propane and electric baseboard now, but I'd quite like to get a wood furnace back in there too sometime. Might go with an external one, though, which would also free up the half of the basement that's currently full of wood (and I could brick off the wood chute)

cheers

Jules

[Tony]

But if you build a small fire in a large stove too often, your flu pipe/chimney will not run hot enough and will build up creosote much much faster creating a dangerous situation. A chimney fire just waiting to happen.

[coloradotrout]

Seems a straight vertical flu pipe would be best?

Straight up from the stove through the roof? vs a pair of 90 deg. transitions (out wall, then back up).

[SteveB]

[Don Phillipson]

UL approval addresses chiefly safe burning (when a stove is installed in compliance with manufacturer's instructions and local fire safety codes:) these are the main concerns of the building permits office. EPA approval concerns the efficient consumption of fuel and production of heat, carbon in smoke, etc. They are quite different (although city-based insurance agents seldom understand this.)

[Don Phillipson]

But in modern (double-wall) steel chimneys chimney fires are seldom dangerous. (I have known firemen recommend them as the best way to remove creosote from a chimney.) Points of danger are:

1 -- obsolete chimneys that do not meet current safety codes; 2 -- the release from the chimney-top of burning material that may fall onto the roof, adjacent buildings, dry treetops etc.

[Heathcliff]

Nope, that's not it. I am talking about a kit where you get the door, legs, and chimney stub, and attach them yourself to your own drum. For example, (no endorsement as to quality or price, just here's a website with a picture that shows what I mean):

[Bob F]

Unfortunately, they are probably not EPA certified, and thus may be illegal to install.

[Ed Pawlowski]

No one has ever come out to check my stove or ask for a permit as they are not required here.

[Larry Caldwell]

Airtight stoves haven't been sold in the USA in over 30 years. All current stoves have to meet EPA pollution specs, which means either a recombustion chamber or catalytic converter.

It's easy to poison a catalytic converter by burning junk in the stove. One cup of used motor oil and you have an expensive piece of inert platinum. Anything that contains metals is particularly poisonous.

A water coil on a wood stove makes a great backup to a solar hot water system. In hot weather, the sun makes more hot water than you can use. In the winter, the wood stove makes more hot water than you can use. All you need is some thermostats to turn on the right pump.

If you want a stove that will hold a fire all night, buy one with a firebox big enough to hold a couple 10" rounds.